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300 Blackout vs 7.62x39


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#1 OFFLINE   mattri

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Posted Nov. 12 2012 - 08:02 PM

Tried a search but it seems I'm too new here- if this has been beat to death I apologize.

Have a DPMS Sportical in .223 and really like it. A buddy has one, my wife shot it and decided she couldn't live without one. This will mostly be for shooting at the range, some varmint hunting. For that application we will keep the stock upper.

We also hunt, and as my wife really likes this rifle and is getting very accurate and comfortable with it we thought about getting another upper/barrel for hunting.

Here's the thinking so far- steer me in the right direction.

Stock 223 upper- leave it alone and shoot it. Ammo is cheap, its plenty accurate and has no recoil so the wife really likes it.

300 Blackout- can go two ways with this, a barrel or a complete upper. A barrel swap is appealing because for very little money up front you get a viable deer round with no other changes. We could either shoot the 223 all year, then swap to the 300 for deer season, then swap back- or just get another upper. I've heard that its not good to use one bcg with different barrels so that is a consideration. Going to a straight 300 upper isn't really an option because while I do reload the cost of components alone is higher than 223 ammo and I don't think the wife will like shooting it as much.

7.62x39- Basically the same performance as the 300 for our purposes. We don't need high capacity mags, 5-10 rounds is plenty, so feeding issues shouldn't be too bad. Ammo is dirt cheap.

It seems as though comparing upper to upper they are very, very close. The 300 has the advantage of using regular mags, but the 7.62 has the advantage of plenty of cheap ammo.

Thoughts?


#2 OFFLINE   Killer308

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Posted Nov. 12 2012 - 08:53 PM

Would you hunt with an AK?


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#3 OFFLINE   mattri

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Posted Nov. 12 2012 - 09:06 PM

A buddy of ours here hunts with an ak he built himself from an 80% flat and does really well with it. He gets at least 1 deer every year, never had to track one farther than 20-30 yards. Personally I have considered an ak or saiga but my wife really prefers the ar, hence the 300 blackout/7.62 debate.


#4 ONLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Nov. 12 2012 - 09:20 PM

If I bought a 300 I would get a dedicated upper. I don't think you want the challenge of pulling the barrel every time you want to plink. 7.62x39 would be a cheap plinking option and if you load it with soft points it won't too bad.

I would go with the 300 if the primary purpose is hunting and an AK if the primary purpose is plinking.


#5 OFFLINE   mattri

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Posted Nov. 13 2012 - 04:43 PM

Thanks for the reply. If a complete upper is used in either round do you think the 300 has a terminal performance edge?


#6 OFFLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Nov. 13 2012 - 05:59 PM

I guess one question not being asked is: How good are AR barrels compared with your average AK?

I just ordered an AR-15 20" rifle kit in 7.62x39. The barrel is made by ER Shaw. With good ammo, as in my handloads (brass cases, Hornady pills) wouldn't the 7.62x39 be a viable hunting round? To me it's not even a comparison between shooting a com-spec gun with com-spec ammo Vs. a good gun with good ammo in the same caliber/cartridge. The 7.62x39 round is not inherently bad. The typical commie application is.


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#7 OFFLINE   Killer308

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Posted Nov. 13 2012 - 06:23 PM

I guess one question not being asked is: How good are AR barrels compared with your average AK?

I just ordered an AR-15 20" rifle kit in 7.62x39. The barrel is made by ER Shaw. With good ammo, as in my handloads (brass cases, Hornady pills) wouldn't the 7.62x39 be a viable hunting round? To me it's not even a comparison between shooting a com-spec gun with com-spec ammo Vs. a good gun with good ammo in the same caliber/cartridge. The 7.62x39 round is not inherently bad. The typical commie application is.


I think it goes without saying that handloads are going to be far superior to any commie junk ammo.


#8 ONLINE   gshayd

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Posted Nov. 13 2012 - 07:34 PM

I chose the 300 AC Blackout because the only thing you change is the barrel plus the 300 AAC uses less powder than a .223 round to reload. If I wanted an AR-15 type rifle I would buy the RRA LAR 47 that uses AK 47 magazines. I purchased a SIG 556R in 7.62.39 that uses AK 47 mags. I own an AK47 but you can only upgrade them to a point anything past that is self defeating.


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#9 OFFLINE   mattri

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Posted Nov. 13 2012 - 09:23 PM

So as far as an ar-15, with a dedicated upper in either 7.62x39 or 300 blackout for a hunting application goes it sounds like it pretty much goes back to the issue of reloading vs bulk ammo. You can hand load either round to be accurate and effective, but you can't buy the cheaper ammo for the blackout. As far as lethality on game within the realistic scope of either cartridge is there a stand out winner?


#10 OFFLINE   THESPECIALIST

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Posted Nov. 13 2012 - 09:37 PM

Thanks for the reply. If a complete upper is used in either round do you think the 300 has a terminal performance edge?



They're actually pretty close to each other in terminal energy. What you gain with the Blackout is the use of the 223 bolt face, 223 brass is easily (yes, I said EASILY see below) converted to 300 Blackout, the ability to run both subsonic and supersonic ammo from the same rifle with a simple mag change, and the accuracy of the AR platform. 7.62x39 has been notorious for feeding issues in the AR platform, 300 BO feeds flawlessly. The most popular weight of projectiles for the 300 are 110-135gr for supers, or 208-240gr for subsonics but it still performs well with anything in between. I run 147gr M80 pulls for plinking, running just a tad under 2000fps and they hit steel like a hammer compared to 223.

If I had to choose an AR in either caliber based on reliability, accuracy, and terminal performance (not energy) I'd go with the Blackout hands down. If I was choosing on ammo cost alone, the 7.62x39 is stupid cheap to shoot. That's pretty much the only advantage it has over the Blackout other than ammo being found almost anywhere.

If I were going with the x39, I'd just buy an AK or SKS. Plenty accurate for short range hunting (100yds and under), reliable, and tough as nails.


To form 300 Blackout cases, it takes the following (and I do it the hard way)


Cut 223 cases just below the shoulder
Lube cases
Size in 300 Blackout sizing die (neck expander removed)
Finish trim to length
Size again with expander mandrel installed
Load
Shoot


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#11 OFFLINE   mattri

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Posted Nov. 13 2012 - 09:51 PM

Thanks for the good information. Definitely only looking at the ar platform. Looks like the Blackout is the way to go. If nothing else, being able to use .308 bullets will be a huge help. Guess I'll have to start reading up on how to build our first ar upper. Thanks again for all the great replies.

Edited by mattri, Nov. 13 2012 - 10:21 PM.



#12 OFFLINE   chris_32212

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Posted Nov. 22 2012 - 02:34 PM

I love both of these cartridges!! Both their strengths were outlined pretty well by THESPECIALIST in a previous post. I have long thought that the 7.62x39 would be an excellent way to launch big heavy 30cal cast bullets but the notorius feeding issues always kept me from attempting to build an AR rig in 7.62x39. I still think it has a little more potential but the 300 blackout is so much more user friendly in the AR platform that it is hard to argue against it. 300 blackout uses less powder which saves money and does almost as well at everything the 7.62x39 is capable of.

I would recomend using a dedicated 300 blackout upper to save time not only changing barrels but also not having to resight in the rifle everytime you change them. I will be doing a 300 blackout upper as soon as I can aford to. (lost my job in October and just found a new one but it will be a few months to get the finances straightened back out). Please let us know which route you go and give us a field report after its built.


#13 OFFLINE   EmperorMA

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Posted Nov. 22 2012 - 08:27 PM

Here's something else to consider: If you reload, why not go with the 6.8 SPC? It is very soft on the shoulder and offers a little better trajectory for hunting purposes. She can shoot with 5.56 all the time for practice then slap the 6.8 upper on for hunting. Just get a complete 6.8 upper with a BCG and a few mags and you're GTG.

Just a thought, but that is what I would do. In fact, I may have just talked myself into it!


#14 ONLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Nov. 22 2012 - 08:30 PM

Here's something else to consider: If you reload, why not go with the 6.8 SPC? It is very soft on the shoulder and offers a little better trajectory for hunting purposes. She can shoot with 5.56 all the time for practice then slap the 6.8 upper on for hunting. Just get a complete 6.8 upper with a BCG and a few mags and you're GTG.

Just a thought, but that is what I would do. In fact, I may have just talked myself into it!


Or reach into the cabinet and just grab one of a half dozen variants. Just like golf clubs. You don't use the same one to make each hole. (I know bad pun)

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#15 OFFLINE   CRE10

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Posted Nov. 22 2012 - 11:00 PM

Or reach into the cabinet and just grab one of a half dozen variants. Just like golf clubs. You don't use the same one to make each hole. (I know bad pun)

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#16 ONLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Nov. 22 2012 - 11:34 PM

Jack of all trades. I never knew you were a golfer too :laugh:


I'm not. Golf courses are a place that raises ground squirrels. I shoot ground squirrels!! I like to put a hole in one.

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#17 OFFLINE   Killer308

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Posted Nov. 23 2012 - 12:04 AM

I'm not. Golf courses are a place that raises ground squirrels. I shoot ground squirrels!! I like to put a hole in one.

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