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#1 OFFLINE   101st

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Posted Jul. 11 2016 - 09:50 PM

I almost always shoot Federal and some SS from time to time.  Between the two I swear I don't notice a difference other than appearance and cost.  If I use the same grain I cannot tell a difference at all.

 

Tula bulk ammo is pretty inexpensive.  Which makes me question quality.  I've only ever fired brass ammo and wonder if with their steel casing there will be FTE issues.  I'm aware they recently came out with brass ammo but I am specifically asking about their steel casing ammo.

 

Any feedback from members here who have cycled a lot of Tula? 9mm and .223.

 

Thanks.




#2 ONLINE   gmor

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Posted Jul. 11 2016 - 09:53 PM

It is dirty but fairly reliable.




#3 OFFLINE   MadeInUSA

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Posted Jul. 11 2016 - 10:34 PM

Cabelas Heters brand is made by Tula, so if you have a Cabelas close by. The 62 gr fmj shot pretty good for what it is.


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Posted Jul. 11 2016 - 11:09 PM

I almost always shoot Federal and some SS from time to time.  Between the two I swear I don't notice a difference other than appearance and cost.  If I use the same grain I cannot tell a difference at all.

 

Tula bulk ammo is pretty inexpensive.  Which makes me question quality.  I've only ever fired brass ammo and wonder if with their steel casing there will be FTE issues.  I'm aware they recently came out with brass ammo but I am specifically asking about their steel casing ammo.

 

Any feedback from members here who have cycled a lot of Tula? 9mm and .223.

 

Thanks.

Never shot any in 9mm but my Colt has digested a fair amount of Tula and never had any issues. 




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#5 OFFLINE   KyAR

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Posted Jul. 11 2016 - 11:35 PM

Dirty, alittle under powered, but good other wise. Well it might not be as accurate.

I have shot metric $h¡ton of it and Wolf 9X19mm NATO and .40 S&W, alot of 7.62X39mm Soviet out of my Vz-58 and a good bit in .223/5.56.

Note, don't shoot alot of steel lacquered cases, then switch to brass. Not without cleaning first. The remaining lacquer in the chamber can stick a brass case.

The problem stems from 1) the lacquer "cooks off" the case alittle with the heat of firing. 2) the steel case doesn't expand as much. 3) the brass does expand more and gets "glued" in chamber.

Alittle bore cleaner and a tap of a cleaning rod does it.

Since the steel doesn't expand and seal the chamber well that's why it's 1) dirty. 2) not as fast. 3) lacks some accuracy.

And when you clean, don't forget to scrub the extractor, the lacquer can and will gum it up.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Really it's good stuff for plinking and training if razor edge accuracy isn't needed.

KyAR


P.S., it is non reloadable, so just don't worry about the case. A big reason I use it in "combat type" matches that don't need high accuracy.


#6 OFFLINE   Derk_digler24

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Posted Jul. 12 2016 - 01:04 AM

Ahot about 850 rounds out of my 14.5" build. It works, 1 FTE malfunction. Got the mushy trigger, tap rack bang.


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#7 OFFLINE   Steelborn1

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Posted Jul. 12 2016 - 05:30 AM

I've had multiple issues with it. Fte, ftf. It is dirty as shat too. I won't run it in my rifles. Ymmv.


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#8 ONLINE   newbe

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Posted Jul. 12 2016 - 11:05 AM

Dirty, alittle under powered, but good other wise. Well it might not be as accurate.

I have shot metric $h¡ton of it and Wolf 9X19mm NATO and .40 S&W, alot of 7.62X39mm Soviet out of my Vz-58 and a good bit in .223/5.56.

Note, don't shoot alot of steel lacquered cases, then switch to brass. Not without cleaning first. The remaining lacquer in the chamber can stick a brass case.

The problem stems from 1) the lacquer "cooks off" the case alittle with the heat of firing. 2) the steel case doesn't expand as much. 3) the brass does expand more and gets "glued" in chamber.

Alittle bore cleaner and a tap of a cleaning rod does it.

Since the steel doesn't expand and seal the chamber well that's why it's 1) dirty. 2) not as fast. 3) lacks some accuracy.

And when you clean, don't forget to scrub the extractor, the lacquer can and will gum it up.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Really it's good stuff for plinking and training if razor edge accuracy isn't needed.

KyAR


P.S., it is non reloadable, so just don't worry about the case. A big reason I use it in "combat type" matches that don't need high accuracy.

It's actually a myth that the lacquer melts in your chamber. I've seen video where they put a torch to it briefly and it still didn't melt. The chamber gets sticky from the dirty powder residue that accumulates because the steel case doesn't expand to seal it. If you had melted lacquer in your chamber, you'd not be removing it without a hell of a lot of effort and possibly a reamer or some way to scrape it out.

Additionally, the bi-metal bullets will wear out your barrel faster as they have steel as a % of the jacket material. Not a big deal if you shoot less expensive barrels as you can replace several with the cost savings you'll have using the steel cased ammo. I however would not recommend using it in any precision type rifle.

I have shot thousands of it through several ARs. I wanted to know just how many rounds it'd take to gum up any particular AR just for my own knowledge. The S&W went over 1,000 rounds and never did choke, though it was definitely getting sluggish.

The Delton went somewhere in the neighborhood of 500+ before it choked.

The thing is, you need to try a little in each weapon you want to use. Some will run it fine (usually the ones that are overgassed), others will short stroke because it's generally weaker ammo.

Of the steel cased variety, I'd recommend Silver Bear, Golden Bear, Brown Bear and MFS. Some are zinc coated, and ALL of the afore mentioned are more powerful than the Tula variety.

I'll also state the Barnaul plant is the one that makes the better stuff. The Tula plant is the one that is generally lower quality.

Wolf ammo is made by many different plants as they are simply importers. The old Wolf was made at the Tula plant (as could be seen by their headstamp). The newer (steel cased) Wolf has been made by the Barnaul plant for several years now,


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#9 OFFLINE   captainbarred

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Posted Jul. 12 2016 - 12:18 PM

Ive seen bad batches where the rounds were not pressed in correctly or their shell sizing was off.

 

Had a bullet literally fall out of the casing when trying to chamber on an Auto Ord Thompson.

 

It did not go fully into battery, so I tried to rack it out.  Shell casing came out, powder poured down over the top of the next round in the mag, and the bullet itself was just sitting in the chamber.

 

And I had not brought a cleaning rod so I had to bring it home that way then use a rod to pop the round out.

 

Cut a good day of shooting short....

 

 

ETA - that said, I've shot probably 5-10K of it in 9mm, and 5.56 prior to that.

 

I don't buy it anymore though.


Edited by captainbarred, Jul. 12 2016 - 12:18 PM.



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#10 ONLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Jul. 12 2016 - 12:21 PM

It's actually a myth that the lacquer melts in your chamber. I've seen video where they put a torch to it briefly and it still didn't melt. The chamber gets sticky from the dirty powder residue that accumulates because the steel case doesn't expand to seal it. If you had melted lacquer in your chamber, you'd not be removing it without a hell of a lot of effort and possibly a reamer or some way to scrape it out.

Additionally, the bi-metal bullets will wear out your barrel faster as they have steel as a % of the jacket material. Not a big deal if you shoot less expensive barrels as you can replace several with the cost savings you'll have using the steel cased ammo. I however would not recommend using it in any precision type rifle.

I have shot thousands of it through several ARs. I wanted to know just how many rounds it'd take to gum up any particular AR just for my own knowledge. The S&W went over 1,000 rounds and never did choke, though it was definitely getting sluggish.

The Delton went somewhere in the neighborhood of 500+ before it choked.

The thing is, you need to try a little in each weapon you want to use. Some will run it fine (usually the ones that are overgassed), others will short stroke because it's generally weaker ammo.

Of the steel cased variety, I'd recommend Silver Bear, Golden Bear, Brown Bear and MFS. Some are zinc coated, and ALL of the afore mentioned are more powerful than the Tula variety.

I'll also state the Barnaul plant is the one that makes the better stuff. The Tula plant is the one that is generally lower quality.

Wolf ammo is made by many different plants as they are simply importers. The old Wolf was made at the Tula plant (as could be seen by their headstamp). The newer (steel cased) Wolf has been made by the Barnaul plant for several years now,


This. KY- the lacquer does nothing in the chamber or barrel.


#11 OFFLINE   MnP4me

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Posted Jul. 12 2016 - 05:33 PM

Other than green tips, all my ammo is steel cased, both SP and FMJ. However I only use Silver Bear or Wolf. I've never had any issues with it in my S&W M&P15. A plus is that due to these bullets being steel jacketed with a copper wash they should offer better penetration for those that value that sort of thing.




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#12 ONLINE   gmor

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 05:10 AM

On a positive note it will increase your gun cleaning skills! :laugh:




#13 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 05:31 AM

Dirty, alittle under powered, but good other wise. Well it might not be as accurate.

I have shot metric $h¡ton of it and Wolf 9X19mm NATO and .40 S&W, alot of 7.62X39mm Soviet out of my Vz-58 and a good bit in .223/5.56.

Note, don't shoot alot of steel lacquered cases, then switch to brass. Not without cleaning first. The remaining lacquer in the chamber can stick a brass case.

The problem stems from 1) the lacquer "cooks off" the case alittle with the heat of firing. 2) the steel case doesn't expand as much. 3) the brass does expand more and gets "glued" in chamber.

Alittle bore cleaner and a tap of a cleaning rod does it.

Since the steel doesn't expand and seal the chamber well that's why it's 1) dirty. 2) not as fast. 3) lacks some accuracy.

And when you clean, don't forget to scrub the extractor, the lacquer can and will gum it up.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Really it's good stuff for plinking and training if razor edge accuracy isn't needed.

KyAR


P.S., it is non reloadable, so just don't worry about the case. A big reason I use it in "combat type" matches that don't need high accuracy.

Would it not be better just to stay away from the lacquered stuff  completely?

Between Tula and their ammo sold under Brown Bear etc. label are there not a number of inexpensive steel case choices that do not have

lacquer on them.

Thanks for the info.




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#14 OFFLINE   MadeInUSA

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 08:18 AM

Would it not be better just to stay away from the lacquered stuff  completely?
Between Tula and their ammo sold under Brown Bear etc. label are there not a number of inexpensive steel case choices that do not have
lacquer on them.
Thanks for the info.


If steel cases didnt have laquer, or some other coating, they would rust fairly quickly.


#15 ONLINE   newbe

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 09:52 AM

Would it not be better just to stay away from the lacquered stuff  completely?
Between Tula and their ammo sold under Brown Bear etc. label are there not a number of inexpensive steel case choices that do not have
lacquer on them.
Thanks for the info.

Re-read my post. Tula and Bear ammo are NOT the same plant or quality.

Nor is lacquer an issue.


#16 OFFLINE   BushXM15

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 11:59 AM

Dirty, alittle under powered, but good other wise. Well it might not be as accurate.

I have shot metric $h¡ton of it and Wolf 9X19mm NATO and .40 S&W, alot of 7.62X39mm Soviet out of my Vz-58 and a good bit in .223/5.56.

Note, don't shoot alot of steel lacquered cases, then switch to brass. Not without cleaning first. The remaining lacquer in the chamber can stick a brass case.

The problem stems from 1) the lacquer "cooks off" the case alittle with the heat of firing. 2) the steel case doesn't expand as much. 3) the brass does expand more and gets "glued" in chamber.

Alittle bore cleaner and a tap of a cleaning rod does it.

Since the steel doesn't expand and seal the chamber well that's why it's 1) dirty. 2) not as fast. 3) lacks some accuracy.

And when you clean, don't forget to scrub the extractor, the lacquer can and will gum it up.

It's not as bad as it sounds. Really it's good stuff for plinking and training if razor edge accuracy isn't needed.

KyAR


P.S., it is non reloadable, so just don't worry about the case. A big reason I use it in "combat type" matches that don't need high accuracy.

 

( Dirty, alittle under powered, but good other wise. Well it might not be as accurate.)  TRUE !.

 

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#17 ONLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 12:04 PM

Re-read my post. Tula and Bear ammo are NOT the same plant or quality.

Nor is lacquer an issue.


Again this.

I like lacquered more than bare steel. Granted, since reloading I haven't bought any steel but I still have a good amount that I'll shoot out of rotation when I can.


#18 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 05:31 PM

Re-read my post. Tula and Bear ammo are NOT the same plant or quality.

Nor is lacquer an issue.

Yes, sir.




#19 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 05:36 PM

Re-read my post. Tula and Bear ammo are NOT the same plant or quality.

Nor is lacquer an issue.

I thought they were using a copper wash or some such thing,

so you did not have to deal with the sticky stuff. 

Hell, I don't know, I don't own an AK, or use steel.

My post was in the form of a question because I'm trying to learn,

not because I'm on Jeopardy.   :segrin:


Edited by Retcop, Jul. 13 2016 - 05:36 PM.



#20 ONLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Jul. 13 2016 - 05:43 PM

I know various flavors of the "bear" ammo comes in zinc plate, brass plate and lacquered steel cases. And as Newbe points out Tula and "bear" are not the same ammo.

 

Barnaul makes the "Bear" brands of ammo. Here's a breakdown from Wikerpoo.....

 

https://en.wikipedia...Cartridge_Plant




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