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Holosun HS515C Circle & Dot/Solar


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#1 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 06:03 PM

Am I the only one going around and around in circles comparing red dots?  This one is solar, battery lifetime if it were all nights would be 5,7 years, It has a 2MOA red dot and an optional 65 MOA circle.  It comes with a quick detach mount.  This fulfills all of my parameters.  But it weighs 5.7 oz., which seems heavy.  The whole package with mount is $305.87 which is ok.

 

Tell me all the things wrong with this red dot as if you were in sales for a competing company, PLEASE.

 

 

http://www.holosun.c...3&product_id=79




#2 OFFLINE   Derk_digler24

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 06:14 PM

Currently you probably are. I already did that. And i ended up with 2 aimpoints and im looking at a trijicon mro (will end up buying an mro)


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#3 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 06:56 PM

Currently you probably are. I already did that. And i ended up with 2 aimpoints and im looking at a trijicon mro (will end up buying an mro)

 

I cannot find anything wrong with the MRO except Mike Mah's admonition not to buy a red dot using a battery.  He really pushed a button deep inside me, a fear.




#4 OFFLINE   Derk_digler24

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 07:51 PM

Change the battery once a year.
Everything electronic can fail, i weld for a living. I have had solar powered welding hoods fail and battery powered. Its a necessity to have back up iron sights.
I wouldnt call it a fear but i was ineasy too. You cant put a price on your life or the lives of your loved ones. I went with what i think is going to work when i need it the most. And i have back up sights if the red dot fails, and if the rifle goes down i have a pistol. And if i fail my wife is armed.
But more then likely i will have a shotgun in my hands if something goes bump in the night.
Whatever you decide on i hope it works if you need it. And i hope you never need it besides shooting holes in paper at the range
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#5 ONLINE   HardenedArm556

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 08:26 PM

Yeah, I'm not to concerned anymore of my MRO failing me. In the event something happens and batteries and electricals are kapoot, I'll have my BUIS to take care of business. Don't turn your eye away from the MRO as I'm finding it to be a very nice sight!




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#6 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 08:45 PM

Right and so the A2 sights are staying.  This coupled with a quick change release is mandatory for peace of mind.  But who wants the red dot to fail in the first place?




#7 OFFLINE   Mickey D

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 09:45 PM

I have the Holosun HS515BU (non solar). I really like the quality of the sight and the QD locks in the closed position to make it snag free.

The CR2032 battery is small and a spare is stored in the Magpul grip. Optics Planet has them for $264.


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#8 OFFLINE   bamashooter

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 09:48 PM

Just get the damn thing so we can move on.  :snicker:




#9 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 10:29 PM

Just get the damn thing so we can move on.  :snicker:

 

Not so fast.  Learning an acceptable level of proficiency with irons is taking longer than anticipated.  This and my first sight purchase has to be an LMT A2 rear sight which should be the best rear iron sight available.  Then we move on to red dots---so there is time.




#10 OFFLINE   JFife

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Posted Mar. 20 2017 - 10:50 PM

I've been eying the holosun 503c for a while. It has the 65moa and/or 2 moa dot as well. I will order one when I have the funds but it is currently low priority.


#11 OFFLINE   newbe

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 01:35 AM

 
Not so fast.  Learning an acceptable level of proficiency with irons is taking longer than anticipated.  This and my first sight purchase has to be an LMT A2 rear sight which should be the best rear iron sight available.  Then we move on to red dots---so there is time.

Have you considered the Aimpoint PRO? Long battery life (years), and an extremely bullet proof ruggedness with a nice 2 MOA dot for closer precision work. You can sometimes get them for under $400.

You'll also occasionally find a used Aimpoint M2 for under $300 if you watch for them.


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#12 ONLINE   Retcop

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 03:28 AM

Am I the only one going around and around in circles comparing red dots?  This one is solar, battery lifetime if it were all nights would be 5,7 years, It has a 2MOA red dot and an optional 65 MOA circle.  It comes with a quick detach mount.  This fulfills all of my parameters.  But it weighs 5.7 oz., which seems heavy.  The whole package with mount is $305.87 which is ok.

 

Tell me all the things wrong with this red dot as if you were in sales for a competing company, PLEASE.

 

 

http://www.holosun.c...3&product_id=79

Check out the thread for the Vortex SPARC red dot on sale for 199 bucks.

I would take that over the Holosun every day of the week, twice on Sundays.

That includes mounting shims.


Edited by Retcop, Mar. 21 2017 - 03:30 AM.



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#13 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 12:57 PM

Retcop,  I moved your comments from the Vortex Venom discussion here but found I have little space to respond so I'll post this and respond in the next post.

The battery operated sights I have have quick release mounts. No co witness unless I raise the front folding sight. 

Having grown up with peep sights, I never had what you are talking about happening,not quite sure it an aperture that small would be right for SD anyway, but then again have not been in battle in the steaming wet jungles of Vietnam.

In any event, one little blow like blowing out a birthday candle on your target size aperture sight should take care of this  "common" problem of water catching in the aperture.

I would like to hear from our Vets and Active duty as to how many have had an aperture sight "hold water". Maybe we should go back to buckhorn sights to solve that rampant problem.

 

For those of you with Military connections, I'm pretty sure the Military would have some kind of study or at least stats on reported incidents of battery powered sights going down at critical moments, and the results of such an incident. I suppose we should give up all electronic devices like those that the MIlitary uses to give them huge advantages over their opponents, like GPS, navigation, IR, night vision goggles, white light, etc, etc. Might as well give up scopes, too, they are complicated pieces of machinery that can break. Murphy is everywhere, but to turn down the advantages of something battery powered given the state of quality battery run optics is overcautious, IMO. But that's OK, it is your hide on the line, not mine.  

 

There are always trade-offs, one must decide the risk/benefit ratios and decide for yourself what is acceptable to you. You want a 50 buck red dot, you are right, I would not trust it either. Stick with the models that are either used by the Military, or are using the technology and engineering hard learned from developing optics for the Military, and IMO I am GTG. If you are that concerned to turn down anything battery operated, the more power to you. I think you are giving up a huge advantage, though. Especially those of us without the best eyes in the world.  Since night vision or IR is beyond my financial means, a quality battery operated red dot at night is going to beat the hell out of iron sights, even with a tritium front post.

 

The key is redundancy. Co-witness your red dot and there is no loss of time on the rare chance your quality red dot goes down.

And as far as tritium inside an optic, I can't remember the price of replacing the tritium in ACOGs, but it was astronomical. (for me anyway.)  If money is no object, and the failure rate for quality red dots is more than you are comfortable with, I get it. You should always listen to yourself, and go with what is acceptable to you. It is completely natural for shooters to have different opinions on this type of thing. Only you can decide for yourself. 

 

As always, shoot what you like and like what you shoot. 

 

 

I'm not quite sure why the sight must come off if you have it co witnessed with your iron sights, unless you can not raise your rear BUIS with the optic attached. As far as the water/rain/fog on reflex sight, I am going by what I have read, but one author was somebody I have some respect for. ..If memory serves it was Lamb, and he was testing a reflex sight. Anyone that knows me here will tell you I am not big on "celebrity trainers"  (an understatement) but the man had no reason to lie. I am not a Lamb fanboy.

You would think it would also be possible to make a small light reflex sight with more protection from the elements without increasing size and weight much. I wonder if a product like Rain-X would be useful for this not very common problem. i.e. you defending yourself  with your AR when it is raining like a cow pising on a flat rock. Or the weather causing fogging.  I obviously thought it was worth mentioning though...

 

Have fun choosing a sight, and I look forward to a range review on the sight.. It is always fun to get new goodies, and getting your heater tricked out exactly how you want it it very satisfying. Good Luck !

 

John

 

The battery operated sights I have have quick release mounts. No co witness unless I raise the front folding sight. 

Having grown up with peep sights, I never had what you are talking about happening,not quite sure it an aperture that small would be right for SD anyway, but then again have not been in battle in the steaming wet jungles of Vietnam.

In any event, one little blow like blowing out a birthday candle on your target size aperture sight should take care of this  "common" problem of water catching in the aperture.

I would like to hear from our Vets and Active duty as to how many have had an aperture sight "hold water". Maybe we should go back to buckhorn sights to solve that rampant problem.

 

For those of you with Military connections, I'm pretty sure the Military would have some kind of study or at least stats on reported incidents of battery powered sights going down at critical moments, and the results of such an incident. I suppose we should give up all electronic devices like those that the MIlitary uses to give them huge advantages over their opponents, like GPS, navigation, IR, night vision goggles, white light, etc, etc. Might as well give up scopes, too, they are complicated pieces of machinery that can break. Murphy is everywhere, but to turn down the advantages of something battery powered given the state of quality battery run optics is overcautious, IMO. But that's OK, it is your hide on the line, not mine.  

 

There are always trade-offs, one must decide the risk/benefit ratios and decide for yourself what is acceptable to you. You want a 50 buck red dot, you are right, I would not trust it either. Stick with the models that are either used by the Military, or are using the technology and engineering hard learned from developing optics for the Military, and IMO I am GTG. If you are that concerned to turn down anything battery operated, the more power to you. I think you are giving up a huge advantage, though. Especially those of us without the best eyes in the world.  Since night vision or IR is beyond my financial means, a quality battery operated red dot at night is going to beat the hell out of iron sights, even with a tritium front post.

 

The key is redundancy. Co-witness your red dot and there is no loss of time on the rare chance your quality red dot goes down.

And as far as tritium inside an optic, I can't remember the price of replacing the tritium in ACOGs, but it was astronomical. (for me anyway.)  If money is no object, and the failure rate for quality red dots is more than you are comfortable with, I get it. You should always listen to yourself, and go with what is acceptable to you. It is completely natural for shooters to have different opinions on this type of thing. Only you can decide for yourself. 

 

As always, shoot what you like and like what you shoot. 

 

 

I'm not quite sure why the sight must come off if you have it co witnessed with your iron sights, unless you can not raise your rear BUIS with the optic attached. As far as the water/rain/fog on reflex sight, I am going by what I have read, but one author was somebody I have some respect for. ..If memory serves it was Lamb, and he was testing a reflex sight. Anyone that knows me here will tell you I am not big on "celebrity trainers"  (an understatement) but the man had no reason to lie. I am not a Lamb fanboy.

You would think it would also be possible to make a small light reflex sight with more protection from the elements without increasing size and weight much. I wonder if a product like Rain-X would be useful for this not very common problem. i.e. you defending yourself  with your AR when it is raining like a cow pising on a flat rock. Or the weather causing fogging.  I obviously thought it was worth mentioning though...

 

Have fun choosing a sight, and I look forward to a range review on the sight.. It is always fun to get new goodies, and getting your heater tricked out exactly how you want it it very satisfying. Good Luck !

 

John

 



#14 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 01:24 PM

Last night I had a conversation with a friend who is out of state and would be bringing me any additional magazines I might need in a SHTF.  He has been shooting from childhood, a Southern boy.  He has no AR15 but seems to know guns.  He suggested the 50 round X-Product wind up magazine that was panned here by everyone.  He is an engineer and a math genius like "Eugene" on Walking Dead.  Negan calls him "Dr. Smartypants" so that is what I will call this guy now.

 

Dr. Smartypants says, paraphrasing, are you (meaning me) a Seal Team Six member?  Are you a Swat Team member?  Then your conditions for use of an AR15 are nothing like theirs.  Yours are not even a soldier like in Vietnam who goes out on patrol.  They tune up their equipment in advance before going out.  They clean their rifles, lubricate, check for broken parts and replace batteries if necessary in those down moments before they fight.  You (meaning me) will not be doing this.  In a SHTF you might spend months working and thinking about other things with your rifle stored away somewhere.  Then, maybe all of a sudden, you need your weapon in an emergency.  Will the batteries work?  Do you have a spare?  How long do batteries last?  Where the batteries factory-fresh when you bought them?  If not, how do you tell they are ready to fail?  Are there spares in a SHTF world?  Can you change a battery under the stress of a fight?

 

As Dr. Smartypants was talking I wondered at my ability to change a magazine under the stress of the fight.  His hypothetical situations, each separately, seemed like Murphy's Law X Murphy's Law X Murphy's Law (you get it).  It seemed to me his point was the biggest probability of failure in the whole AR15 was going to be the electric optic.  I did not bring up feeding-magazine failures but I will get back with him on this at another time.  Magazine failures are probably number one but he has a point here.  The battery is subject to more failure than even I realized, it would always be the most unreliable component in an AR (excluding magazine failures), and these problems would be compounded in a SHTF or probably any emergency.

 

For all these reasons the Holosun solar red dots look good and look better all the time. These are not going to fail in daylight and because of their electronic mix the batteries will more likely be available at night for me. There are certainly better red dot out there and tougher red dots but for my particular use I am not sure there is a better red dot.

 

Where am I going wrong here?




#15 OFFLINE   bamashooter

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 03:19 PM

You'll be just fine with the Holosun. Like life, preparation is key. Extra everything within reason. Batteries: Just like smoke alarms, etc, I highly recommend changing them regularly. Cost shouldn't be an issue and takes less than 60 seconds. Changing of magazines for ammo. Lots of practice with quick access to magazines, dropping / inserting magazines while maintaining point of aim. Very difficult to be proficient at this. There's probably videos out there that take you through the steps of just replacing a magazine while looking down range up to the point of maintaining POA. Taking available cover while addressing malfunctions, changing magazines, etc is the norm. Speaking of malfunctions, you might take a look see here: http://www.armystudy...udy-guide.shtmlMaybe there's been some changes which hopefully the younger troops can speak to. Like most things in the military, some of it is "who cares?". The remainder is good stuff to know.




#16 OFFLINE   newbe

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 03:28 PM

Last night I had a conversation with a friend who is out of state and would be bringing me any additional magazines I might need in a SHTF.  He has been shooting from childhood, a Southern boy.  He has no AR15 but seems to know guns.  He suggested the 50 round X-Product wind up magazine that was panned here by everyone.  He is an engineer and a math genius like "Eugene" on Walking Dead.  Negan calls him "Dr. Smartypants" so that is what I will call this guy now.
 
Dr. Smartypants says, paraphrasing, are you (meaning me) a Seal Team Six member?  Are you a Swat Team member?  Then your conditions for use of an AR15 are nothing like theirs.  Yours are not even a soldier like in Vietnam who goes out on patrol.  They tune up their equipment in advance before going out.  They clean their rifles, lubricate, check for broken parts and replace batteries if necessary in those down moments before they fight.  You (meaning me) will not be doing this.  In a SHTF you might spend months working and thinking about other things with your rifle stored away somewhere.  Then, maybe all of a sudden, you need your weapon in an emergency.  Will the batteries work?  Do you have a spare?  How long do batteries last?  Where the batteries factory-fresh when you bought them?  If not, how do you tell they are ready to fail?  Are there spares in a SHTF world?  Can you change a battery under the stress of a fight?
 
As Dr. Smartypants was talking I wondered at my ability to change a magazine under the stress of the fight.  His hypothetical situations, each separately, seemed like Murphy's Law X Murphy's Law X Murphy's Law (you get it).  It seemed to me his point was the biggest probability of failure in the whole AR15 was going to be the electric optic.  I did not bring up feeding-magazine failures but I will get back with him on this at another time.  Magazine failures are probably number one but he has a point here.  The battery is subject to more failure than even I realized, it would always be the most unreliable component in an AR (excluding magazine failures), and these problems would be compounded in a SHTF or probably any emergency.
 
For all these reasons the Holosun solar red dots look good and look better all the time. These are not going to fail in daylight and because of their electronic mix the batteries will more likely be available at night for me. There are certainly better red dot out there and tougher red dots but for my particular use I am not sure there is a better red dot.
 
Where am I going wrong here?

If it's going to be a "save your life SHTF" rifle I'd not skimp on the optic. Yes optics can go down or break. That Holosun is no different. That's why back up irons are a necessity for that type of rifle.

The Aimpoint batteries will last for at least 3 years even if left on. How much longer if turned off till you need it? Spare batteries are cheap, and will last even longer than the one you're using.

No you're not a SEAL or soldier. That's why you dont need night vision, lasers, etc...

You DO however need something that will be resilient to a shift in point of aim/point of impact. One that will also survive a direct drop onto a hard surface (concrete, rocks, etc).

Having a $400 optic is not saying you'll need to be an operator to need it. It's saying you want something with a battle proven record for reliability. This is where I away from your thinking on an optic that I need to rely on with possibly my life at stake.

IMO a Holosun might work. I bet it won't hold up as well as a higher end optic though. There's a reason the military uses it, and it's not to just look cool.

That's my opinion.
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#17 OFFLINE   SturmGewehr

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 04:43 PM

But the Aimpoint is only as good as the battery.  You know everything about the Aimpoint but what do you know about the battery?

 

Yes, if I were a Seal I would pick the Aimpoint.  I would have an idea about the timing for my next mission and could get a brand new battery and backup battery before going out.  The Aimpoint seems to be the industry standard and is probably very tough.

 

But if you were an Army Ranger, out in the boonies training a local militia for several months, would it still be your pick?  Where do you get batteries out there?  Are those batteries fresh?  If toughness is the only issue and you are out with the Rangers, why not look into this:

 

http://www.holosun.c...&product_id=106

 

Solar/battery powered, waterproof and built of titanium.  It is not going down.  I called Holosun today and talked about it.  This Holosun HS 515CM is not ready yet but is about the same size as the Trijicon MRO.  This sight costs $470.00 which is even within my budget.  So what is wrong?  It weighs 7 oz. with mount.  The Trijicon is over 6 oz. but the HS515C is 5.57 with mount and it is solar.




#18 OFFLINE   Longhair

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 04:50 PM

Two words (once again)....LIVE TRITIUM.

Stays lit for years, and NO battery!

You could be in a cave and never see the sun for a year and you'd still have a working sight, unlike something that's solar powered.




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#19 OFFLINE   newbe

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 05:21 PM

But the Aimpoint is only as good as the battery.  You know everything about the Aimpoint but what do you know about the battery?
 
Yes, if I were a Seal I would pick the Aimpoint.  I would have an idea about the timing for my next mission and could get a brand new battery and backup battery before going out.  The Aimpoint seems to be the industry standard and is probably very tough.
 
But if you were an Army Ranger, out in the boonies training a local militia for several months, would it still be your pick?  Where do you get batteries out there?  Are those batteries fresh?  If toughness is the only issue and you are out with the Rangers, why not look into this:
 
http://www.holosun.c...&product_id=106
 
Solar/battery powered, waterproof and built of titanium.  It is not going down.  I called Holosun today and talked about it.  This Holosun HS 515CM is not ready yet but is about the same size as the Trijicon MRO.  This sight costs $470.00 which is even within my budget.  So what is wrong?  It weighs 7 oz. with mount.  The Trijicon is over 6 oz. but the HS515C is 5.57 with mount and it is solar.

My answer still stands. Especially seeing the price of that optic.

I really don't care what you purchase. It's your money and you ultimately have to be happy with it. Titanium is the shell. It has nothing to do with the electronics, wiring, glass, etc.

If I need something ultimately reliable, save my life end of civilization, etc, it'll be an Acog, or Aimpoint. Period. 2 batteries will probably last you 5-7 years. Back up sights will do after that.

In reality, it probably won't matter, because it probably won't happen, and if it did, it would more than likely be short lived.

Regardless, that's my input. If my life depends on it, I'm going with a name brand with a long term track record.
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#20 OFFLINE   Longhair

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Posted Mar. 21 2017 - 06:05 PM

Regardless, that's my input. If my life depends on it, I'm going with a name brand with a long term track record.

Exactly why you should add Armson to your list. They were one of the very first combat proven dot sight manufacturers. Their OEG was developed and used extensively on the dark continent 40+yrs ago. Their live tritium lamps typically last 5-7yrs (I had one go 8yrs), function in total darkness w/o any battery, cost very little to replace, and aren't even necessary if there is any ambient light.

 

I've had one for 32yrs, and it's what I'd stake my life on. It's 4MOA dot isn't great for long range, but at combat distances it's just dandy.

 

http://www.armsonusa.com/index.html


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