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AAR: Defensive Pistol Skills Small Gun


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#1 ONLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Jul. 29 2017 - 08:18 PM

I attended this class today at KR Training in Lincoln, TX.

 

https://krtraining.com

 

The purpose of this class was to teach skills for successfully using/carry of a small handgun for defensive purposes. Either as a back up gun or primary carry.

 

The program began with a skills assessment by having us all shoot our guns to see how accurate the shooter was with their little gun. Drills went from dry fire to quite a few courses of timed fire from various distances, number of shots, shot placement (head and chest etc), two handed, single handed both strong and weak hand etc. All in varying amounts of time using a shot timer. Much was discussed regarding draw and presentation of these smaller guns due to their size and mode of carry. Drawing a small gun from a holster in your pocket is not a speedy thing to accomplish for most people. I struggled with this myself.

 

A test was done for shooting with the small gun and then the same test was run with our full sized guns. The difference was then compared. Most shot the test a little better with their larger guns. (no shock there) The difference for most of the shooters was not too much. One gentleman actually shot better with his small gun over the larger gun.

 

Later in the class we drew and shot from seated positions at a table and from both a simulated drivers seat and then from a real driver's seat in a pickup truck.

 

The little gun gives you a lot more to think about regarding draw to presentation as well as grip and getting good hits especially with pocket carry.

 

I had two take-aways from this class. First is gear. Second is fixing old training scars.

 

Gear. I took a Kimber Solo 9MM to the class. From the get go this thing had problems. It will not chamber a round (115 grain ball) without the slide being locked open. The cartridge gets pushed nose down in the magazine when inserted when the slide is closed. Also had issues with the thing failing to eject and then trying to feed another round. After consultations with Karl this seems to be an issue with this gun and I own a Turkey. (Lucky me! :segrin:)

 

The other gear problem I had was with the pocket holster. I seem to have some sort of mental defect that just cannot grok how to draw the gun and leave the holster in the pocket in spite of the correct method being demonstrated clearly to me. I'm sure if I was not already highly honked off at the Kimber I'd have been able to focus better and not be a fumbling idiot trying to draw the thing from my pocket.

 

As a result of both malfunctions with the Kimber and my inability to draw correctly I really did horrible on the assessment test. I shot the remainder of the class with my carry gun (Walther PPQ 9MM).

 

Second take-away. Bad habits I've let get out of hand. Mostly surrounding proper manipulation of the gun during the 4 count draw stroke. I really need to work on that.

 

I'm grateful to the instructor, Karl Rehn, for being patient and gracious while putting up with my issues surrounding the Kimber. 

 

 




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#2 ONLINE   Snake46

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Posted Jul. 30 2017 - 09:02 AM

Sounds like worthwhile training..sorry about your Kimber..


#3 ONLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Jul. 30 2017 - 10:16 AM

One of the points the Instructor made is how not only do these classes teach us skills it also shines a bright light on gear that does not work.

 

For both I am grateful.


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#4 ONLINE   devil duck

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Posted Jul. 30 2017 - 10:35 AM

You need to call and E mail Kimber Monday morning. Explain in detail what and when the issues occurred. They have a really good CS and will take care of you.


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#5 ONLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Jul. 30 2017 - 11:20 AM

You need to call and E mail Kimber Monday morning. Explain in detail what and when the issues occurred. They have a really good CS and will take care of you.

 

I'm considering that. However here is a data point. The instructor (who is also the owner of the school) told me he has never seen one of these Solos make it through a class. *that* is very telling.




#6 OFFLINE   adamr19745

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Posted Jul. 30 2017 - 03:30 PM

Heard a lot of problems with the solo

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#7 OFFLINE   adamr19745

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Posted Jul. 30 2017 - 03:35 PM

I would trade the gun even at a loss better to have a functional gun. Good luck whatever u do

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#8 OFFLINE   Rampy

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Posted Jul. 30 2017 - 04:14 PM

You need to call and E mail Kimber Monday morning. Explain in detail what and when the issues occurred. They have a really good CS and will take care of you.

 

 

I have a friend who works at Kimber, he carries Glocks even though his employee discount is really really really good........




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#9 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Aug. 02 2017 - 01:04 AM

One of the points the Instructor made is how not only do these classes teach us skills it also shines a bright light on gear that does not work.

 

For both I am grateful.

 

You just had some great training. 

Just because everything did not go like clockwork does not mean you did not learn a whole lot.

And that is what practical training is all about.

You have taken a huge step.

 

Bravo !




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#10 ONLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Aug. 03 2017 - 10:57 PM

I would trade the gun even at a loss better to have a functional gun. Good luck whatever u do

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The Solo has been replaced. Walther PPS LE edition. Feels a lot like my PPQ. The trigger is still a little stiff. It should limber up like my PPQ did.

 

I'll post some Porn, er I mean pics tomorrow. Range report next week.

 

 

You just had some great training. 

Just because everything did not go like clockwork does not mean you did not learn a whole lot.

And that is what practical training is all about.

You have taken a huge step.

 

Bravo !

 

This is one reason I keep coming back to this school. Karl Rehn is one of the best unknown (outside of Texas) instructors in the trade.


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#11 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Aug. 04 2017 - 05:35 AM

 

The Solo has been replaced. Walther PPS LE edition. Feels a lot like my PPQ. The trigger is still a little stiff. It should limber up like my PPQ did.

 

I'll post some Porn, er I mean pics tomorrow. Range report next week.

 

 

This is one reason I keep coming back to this school. Karl Rehn is one of the best unknown (outside of Texas) instructors in the trade.

 

It is hard to hear that Kimber is  putting out a model like the Solo that is having (most likely) widespread problems.

I like my Pro Carry, and Kimber IMO a good quality pistol that does not break the bank, which got me into 1911's.

I hope they fix the problem, even if they have to recall the pistol. 

Making what clearly is a self defense carry pistol with problems is not what I expect from Kimber.

 

Writing this brings back a memory, and that is talking to an elderly gentleman at Kimber via phone regarding the different models.

He suggested I stick with the all steel full size model.

Why I ask. 

"Because when you you start make them smaller you stat having problems", he said.

Now this was at least a decade ago, and I would say the same when you go under 4 inch 

barrels. 

Why is it that 1911's have the reputation for finickyness and needing more TLC to keep running

than the more modern pocket pistols ? 

Or is it a myth?




#12 ONLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Aug. 04 2017 - 07:49 AM

I have afew customers with solos and they only like a diet of 147gr +p ammo. That makes for a expensive range trip.


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#13 ONLINE   devil duck

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Posted Aug. 04 2017 - 09:34 AM

It is hard to hear that Kimber is  putting out a model like the Solo that is having (most likely) widespread problems.
I like my Pro Carry, and Kimber IMO a good quality pistol that does not break the bank, which got me into 1911's.
I hope they fix the problem, even if they have to recall the pistol. 
Making what clearly is a self defense carry pistol with problems is not what I expect from Kimber.
 
Writing this brings back a memory, and that is talking to an elderly gentleman at Kimber via phone regarding the different models.
He suggested I stick with the all steel full size model.
Why I ask. 
"Because when you you start make them smaller you stat having problems", he said.
Now this was at least a decade ago, and I would say the same when you go under 4 inch 
barrels. 
Why is it that 1911's have the reputation for finickyness and needing more TLC to keep running
than the more modern pocket pistols ? 
Or is it a myth?

Timing, it's all about timing. Well that and these limp wristed snowflakes that don't have the ability to grip the pistol like a man. When you shorten the barrel less than 4" things start happening really fast. Way back when, Kimber looked at what the issue was with the three inch 1911 and reliability. Others had just simply cut the barrel but that was proving to cause some serious issues with the cycle speed. Kimber started with a clean sheet and made the necessary adjustments so a 3" could cycle correctly.
Now because of the speed it cycled the shooter became an integral part of the system. If you even slightly limp wrist a 3" 1911 you remove much of the energy needed to cycle. You would suprised at how many cycling issues are shooter induced but every one wants to blame the pistol. Grip it like you mean it and lock the wrist. Now the SOLO I'm not sure what the issue is other than its VERY picky about ammo.
Lots of folks like to slam Kimber but if it wasn't for Kimber the 1911 as you know today might not exist. Kimber was the FIRST major company to offer a reliable and affordable 1911 to the masses. Before that you bought a Colt and took it directly to your Smith to tighten it up, fix the trigger and make it accurate. I remember reading the press release when Kimber said that they would offer a production 1911 that did not need to be reworked to perform properly. The slide to frame fit was tight, it had a great trigger, was as accurate as a custom built 1911 and was reliable. They would do this at less than half of what it cost to have one custom built.
Many said that It would never happen but Kimber brought in a new forging process and CNC machines and the rest is history. Thanks to Kimber you can now buy a 1911 that dosen't need a 1,000 dollars worth of upgrades to work properly. My carry is a Kimber CDP 3" and I can promise you that you will not find a more reliable carry piece. But I also know how to grip and shoot it.


#14 ONLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Aug. 04 2017 - 11:52 AM

I have afew customers with solos and they only like a diet of 147gr +p ammo. That makes for a expensive range trip.

 

I'm convinced this is the core of the issues with the Kimber. I'm still done with it. I have it listed for sale and have received some interest. I really like the feel of the PPS. Of course time will tell once I get to shoot it.




#15 OFFLINE   newbe

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Posted Aug. 04 2017 - 05:53 PM

Excellent! Congrats on getting some training!

You're right, skills gained and equipment will be assessed at a good class with a decent round count.

Now....

Don't stop there!


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#16 ONLINE   Flesh Wound

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Posted Aug. 04 2017 - 05:55 PM

Excellent! Congrats on getting some training!

You're right, skills gained and equipment will be assessed at a good class with a decent round count.

Now....

Don't stop there!

 

Stop? No way homie. This is my 8th class taken at this school. 10th class over all. Cannot ever learn too much.




#17 OFFLINE   newbe

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Posted Aug. 04 2017 - 05:57 PM

 
Stop? No way homie. This is my 8th class taken at this school. 10th class over all. Cannot ever learn too much.

Excellent !! :thumb:





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