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How to stop the mass shootings?


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#1 OFFLINE   Gmountain

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 07:29 AM

I thought this deserved a different thread because it's not just about the Texas murders.

 

I think we all can agree that these shootings are bad, and that they happen way to frequently.  So, how do we stop them?

 

Arm everyone? The last one was in Texas, where I thought everyone was armed. 

 

Seriously, how do we stop this?  What is the answer.

 

Don't turn this into a gun control debate. We all know gun control isn't the answer.but  I'm asking- what is? What would you do to stop this kind of stuff? Don't bring up what doesn't work- how about some ideas that will work.

 

I don't know the answer, but a lot of people have been getting shot lately.




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#2 OFFLINE   bamashooter

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 07:56 AM

Seriously? Let me count the ways.  :tiphat:




#3 OFFLINE   olfart

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 07:57 AM

This debate is not about guns, it's about control.  We as a nation no longer allow God to control our lives and actions.  If you'll think back to when the frequency of mass murders started a rapid rise, you'll likely find it was shortly after Madelyn Murray O'Hare won her court fight to get God out of every facet of our public lives.  When we removed God from schools, the kids who never heard about Him at home no longer had the chance to hear about Him at school.  Things went downhill rapidly once kids felt no moral constraints.


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#4 OFFLINE   Srgt. Hulka

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:04 AM

As society is losing it's faith, it's also losing it's morals.  Look at the world around us.  Our morals have gone down the toilet, and with them, our sense of respect and honor of one another.  

To answer your question G, there is no way to stop it.  This is our new Godless world we live in.  


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#5 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:04 AM

I do believe that more "good guys with guns" and willing to put their neck on the line will help.

 

The other thing is to develop a due process for those who are mentally ill and a danger to themselves and others.

 

Being competent to stand trial is totally different than being well enough to be loose in society.

 

The larger answer is that there is no way in a free society to stop all of these sorts of attacks.

 

All that can be done is that for any business or church to adjust to the new reality and understand

that they share some of the responsibility to keep their customers or parishioners safe.

 

However, the lion's share of the responsibility still falls to the individual to defend themselves,

and they must not be denied that right. 

 

Lastly, we have a long history in the Criminal Justice system of not prosecuting those who commit UUW,

and those who lie when filling out their forms to purchase a weapon. Biden is quoted as saying when he was in Office that the DOJ did not prosecute those who lied on their purchase applications that LE and the Courts jut did not have the resources to prosecute the enormouse # of people who lied. BS.

 

Lock those who use weapons to commit violence up and throw away the key, remove laws that deny the right of the law abiding to defend themselves, and increase security, volunteer or otherwise at soft targets.

 

But most of all, realize that in a free society, there is nothing we can do to prevent some of these murders.

But I believe there are many things we can do to save a lot of lives when they do happen.

 

On my drive home, Hannity had 2 Pastors on his radio show, and it was unbelievable the amount of security they had at their churches, not only for the Pastors but for the congregations. I also agree that we have a lot of retired LEO and Military who would love to make some money providing security wherever we have a soft target and/or a large gathering of people. 

 

Besides longer prison time for anyone who uses a gun in a crime, we must realize we can not turn the clock back, and we are living in different times.

 

My biggest concern is the NRA supporting adding MH records to NCIC's without any kind of legal adjudication for the person who has received mental health treatment. Is anyone who has sought treatment for PTSD, situational depression, or even marriage counseling going to be denied their rights in a search for safety that does not exist ?

 

IMO Mental Health Treatment and Gun Rights ar going to be the next major battle.

This is why I have been railing against the VA handing out so many PTSD diagnosis when many times the Veteran just needs a little help through their period of adjustment. 

To jump on the bandwagon of agreeing that anyone who has received MH TX is automatically denied by the instant background check is a huge mistake we will all come to regret.

 

I urge everyone to contact the NRA and express their opinion that firearm ownership shall not be infringed without an adjudication in a Court of Law.

To make anyone who has received psychological services  subject to automatic denial of a gun purchase, and then must prove themselves innocent is totally unacceptable and is a hill we should all be willing to die on. 

 

John

 

EDIT:  G, your said you did not want to turn this into a gun control debate, but we must reclaim the natural right to self  defense with appropriate means, which are firearms, it good is going to win over evil in this Republic. I don't know how you can ask for this topic to be discussed while ignoring that our Founders wanted "that every man be armed."

No one can always stop another human from killing someone else, especially if the bad guy is willing to get caught or die doing it.

But we sure can minimize the loss of life through firearm self defense. You can't address this problem without discussing an armed citizenry. 


Edited by Retcop, Nov. 07 2017 - 07:01 PM.

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#6 OFFLINE   gmor

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:05 AM

One step would be mental health reform. The GOP ways talks about this aspect but will seemingly do nothing to pay for it. To start with mental health coverage should be a mandatory part of all health insurance policies. Rather than support this vital ingredient the GOP is actually trying to remove it from law. Also there should be a more efficient way to commit the mentally ill for treatment while still safeguarding thier rights. All this costs money, but to say we need more mental health access and then refuse to fund it accomplishes nothing.


#7 OFFLINE   gmor

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:14 AM

This debate is not about guns, it's about control.  We as a nation no longer allow God to control our lives and actions.  If you'll think back to when the frequency of mass murders started a rapid rise, you'll likely find it was shortly after Madelyn Murray O'Hare won her court fight to get God out of every facet of our public lives.  When we removed God from schools, the kids who never heard about Him at home no longer had the chance to hear about Him at school.  Things went downhill rapidly once kids felt no moral constraints.

Do you want your kids taught about Islam in school? Do we want schools to be a battleground for what religious doctrine is taught at taxpayer expense?


#8 OFFLINE   Srgt. Hulka

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:22 AM

This debate is not about guns, it's about control.  We as a nation no longer allow God to control our lives and actions.  If you'll think back to when the frequency of mass murders started a rapid rise, you'll likely find it was shortly after Madelyn Murray O'Hare won her court fight to get God out of every facet of our public lives.  When we removed God from schools, the kids who never heard about Him at home no longer had the chance to hear about Him at school.  Things went downhill rapidly once kids felt no moral constraints.


This. ^^^^
Olfart was posting while I was typing.


#9 OFFLINE   Gmountain

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:27 AM

This debate is not about guns, it's about control.  We as a nation no longer allow God to control our lives and actions.  If you'll think back to when the frequency of mass murders started a rapid rise, you'll likely find it was shortly after Madelyn Murray O'Hare won her court fight to get God out of every facet of our public lives.  When we removed God from schools, the kids who never heard about Him at home no longer had the chance to hear about Him at school.  Things went downhill rapidly once kids felt no moral constraints.

So what would you do?




#10 OFFLINE   Steelborn1

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:28 AM

Do you want your kids taught about Islam in school? Do we want schools to be a battleground for what religious doctrine is taught at taxpayer expense?


Islam is not a religion, it's a political control system based on hatred and violence. I am all for bringing God back into our lives. There is a direct correlation between the decay of our society and turning away from God. Read the book of Judges. It describes the United States very well.

I am also reminded of John's idea of people carrying PDW's. Bad guys are scared of people with concealed handguns. They would be terrified of being met with SBR's and the like. I think an openly armed society would make a huge impact.


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#11 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:30 AM

One step would be mental health reform. The GOP ways talks about this aspect but will seemingly do nothing to pay for it. To start with mental health coverage should be a mandatory part of all health insurance policies. Rather than support this vital ingredient the GOP is actually trying to remove it from law. Also there should be a more efficient way to commit the mentally ill for treatment while still safeguarding thier rights. All this costs money, but to say we need more mental health access and then refuse to fund it accomplishes nothing.

Mandatory this, mandatory that.The government has all the answers...

 

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#12 OFFLINE   gmor

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:31 AM

Islam is not a religion, it's a political control system based on hatred and violence. I am all for bringing God back into our lives. There is a direct correlation between the decay of our society and turning away from God. Read the book of Judges. It describes the United States very well.

I am also reminded of John's idea of people carrying PDW's. Bad guys are scared of people with concealed handguns. They would be terrified of being met with SBR's and the like. I think an openly armed society would make a huge impact.

OK then, what religions should be taught in public schools and who should teach it?


#13 OFFLINE   Steelborn1

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:34 AM

OK then, what religions should be taught in public schools and who should teach it?

Don't teach religion at all. Just teach the Bible. Hire bibilical scholars who can answer tough questions about it.

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#14 OFFLINE   gmor

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:38 AM

Don't teach religion at all. Just teach the Bible. Hire bibilical scholars who can answer tough questions about it.

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There are numerous interpretations of the Bible. Do we hire Catholic, Pentecostal, Jehovah Witness, 7 Day Adventist, Baptist etc scholars to teach your children? What about the kids that aren't Christian? Do you really want the government to hire Bible scholars?

Edited by gmor, Nov. 07 2017 - 08:39 AM.



#15 OFFLINE   youngod

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:40 AM

I think Olfart makes a good point and to be honest the debate about God didn't really occur until the hippie / antiwar 60's.  We live in a much different society than when most of us grew up or for sure when our parents grew up.  God was ok to say.  Prayer was ok to have.  Think about it, it's not acceptable anymore.....by who mainly....the liberal left.  

 

Also the country, our kids, have desensitized to the value of life with some of the video games that are played out there.  How many bodies can you kill?  Have you seen the graphics in todays games.  It's about as real as you can get.  Now stick on some VR googles!! Its' crazy!!

 

Better enforcement of laws is another thing.  Commit a crime do the time.  Most get off now with 20-30% time served.  




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#16 OFFLINE   DinkusTheStinkus

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 08:53 AM

The biggest problem I see is the lack of punishment for those acquiring and those selling illegal firearms. Yes some people shouldn't be able to own firearms but to make those who should be able to have to jump through ten tons of hoops just to get them isn't right either.

We all deserve the right to defend ourselves, unless we have proven to a jury of our peers to not have the capacity to use that right without the risk of causing harm to ourselves or others.


#17 OFFLINE   specops56

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 09:01 AM

Shoot back.

 

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#18 OFFLINE   Gmountain

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 09:13 AM

I think the biggest issue is the breakdown of the family. I think divorce should be illegal. Out of wedlock births should be shameful and not rewarded.

I think that is how we get back to a mral center.
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#19 OFFLINE   j-dub

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 09:18 AM

there is no easy answer that will make everyone happy.  from what I see, this is much more of a mental health issue, than a gun issue.

guns are inanimate objects, that if left out of a hand, would never fire a bullet.

now, to say we need to spend unknown amounts of money on crazy, is imo in fact crazy.  circumstances change all the time for people, what may be a nothing burger today, could cause a melt down next week.

fundamental rights are at play here.   I feel that most if not all, are opposed to anting up the cost to further screen for crazy, especially when most of us know it will amount to no improvement.  we have a right not to pay for everyone elses health issues, but the way things are going, that too will be lost.

personally, I think no amount of screening will completely rid the prospects of crazy people getting guns.  but there are signs that we must not ignore, systems in place, that must be followed.   had the proper process been followed in regards to the Texas church shooter, he would have never legally owned a firearm. 

capital punishment is one angle, and one I fully support.  it is not about deterrent, its about punishment.   something lacking today. 




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#20 OFFLINE   Steelborn1

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Posted Nov. 07 2017 - 09:22 AM

There are numerous interpretations of the Bible. Do we hire Catholic, Pentecostal, Jehovah Witness, 7 Day Adventist, Baptist etc scholars to teach your children? What about the kids that aren't Christian? Do you really want the government to hire Bible scholars?

King James Version is widely accepted as the most accurate translation to english. Use that text and nondenominational scholars. Easy enough. And the kids who aren't Christian need it the most.

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