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New 18" American 30 Barrel


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#1 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Jan. 30 2018 - 11:07 PM

I just bought an 18" American 30 barrel. I bought some 30 Herrett Pacific dies and found the expander did not fit in the 6.8mm case.

So, I ran some cases into a 300 Blackout die to enlarge the neck being careful not to run the case in too far.

I then ran the cases into the 30 Herrett die just until I felt some shoulder resistance. The shoulder got a bit sharper and I stopped.

I seated a bullet into an empty case for testing. I forgot I have to trim to 1.620" and will do this next.

I wonder why the chamber was designed to be trimmed at all? Why not just size and load?



#2 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 01 2018 - 09:53 AM

I just bought an 18" American 30 barrel. I bought some 30 Herrett Pacific dies and found the expander did not fit in the 6.8mm case.

So, I ran some cases into a 300 Blackout die to enlarge the neck being careful not to run the case in too far.

I then ran the cases into the 30 Herrett die just until I felt some shoulder resistance. The shoulder got a bit sharper and I stopped.

I seated a bullet into an empty case for testing. I forgot I have to trim to 1.620" and will do this next.

I wonder why the chamber was designed to be trimmed at all? Why not just size and load?

 

Because if you tried to seat heavy bullets in the cases the ogive will be back in the case neck. Also based on where the bullets ride in the magazine this is the longest that  can be used and still allow reliable feeding from a magazine due to the location of the ribs.

 

As to your 300 BLK the expander is the same size. You just  have to lube the inside of the necks to expand. From 277 to 308 is nothing in the expansion world. I used 6X6.8 cases fired a dozen times to make mine. No issues at all and no neck splits. You just have to be strong and do it. I KNEW mine was going to crush yet after making severl hundred cases I have not lost one nor have the other two developers.

 

W spent months working out all the nuances on this one when we designed it. It outruns any other short 30 on the market and is right with the 30 RAR. It is 150 FPS faster than a 30-30 in an AR platform.

 

Greg




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#3 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 01 2018 - 09:54 AM

BTW if you post questions  up in the Alternative or Reloading areas everyone here can learn a f ew guys wander through this area.

 

Greg



#4 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Feb. 01 2018 - 10:21 PM

I can see this site again. Thanks for your help GL.

I have been making dummy rounds of American 30.

I trimmed two cases to 1.610 and 1.615.  I was trying for 1.620 but overtrimmed a bit.

With a receiver and BCG the cases would not extract so I guess they are a little too short and would not engage the extractor.

They fell out when I turned the barrel upside down. I seated a 110g Hornady Vmax to a COAL of 2.310 and they fit in a magazine.

They also now extracted from the barrel with the extractor so I guess the bullet is in the lands.

I don't know if I should try to fireform with a few grains of red dot and some wadding (no bullet) or should I load some 20% below max loads and just shoot at the range.

I think I did read where the shoulder will be blown forward to fit the chamber.

Anyway, I'm taking it slow.



#5 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 01 2018 - 10:35 PM

Trim length has nothing to do with extraction unless it's too long jammed into the throat with a bullet. Shoulder height is the issue. Size the shoulder a bit less on a couple of cases and try again.


There have been several reamer changes since Ritch and I developed this cartridge. Get couple cases to fit and blowthem out with Red D or Bullseye and corn meal toget some comparison cases. Then you can use the Sinclair bullet seating tool to keep out of trouble.

Greg

#6 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Feb. 04 2018 - 07:23 PM

I found that if I touch the shoulder any amount with the Herrett die the case is too deep in the chamber and the extractor does not get over the case rim.

 

It works if I just expand the neck with a Lee .308 depriming rod with expander inserted into my Lee universal decapping die.

 

Then, I just trim and the case fits in the chamber and the extractor snaps over the rim and can be ejected.

 

I close the bolt slowly as you mention in another thread to avoid hammering the shoulder back.

 

Next I will try fire forming with corn meal after the Superbowl since my neighbors should not notice because of the firecrackers people will set off.

 

If the Eagles win I should be able to do a lot of fireforming.bellylaf.gif



#7 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 04 2018 - 11:52 PM

Yeah. I belive you have derivation #4. I've got a Savage barrel chambered like that I haven't shot. Looking forward to your report.

Greg

#8 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 12:52 PM

I didn't get to fireform since our dog was nervous hearing the fireworks. If I touched one off in the basement he may have passed out.

I also thought it through and realized I did not want to be blowing corn meal all over the basement.

I think I might have some old 30 cal plinkers which I will load for fireforming.  I will report when I do more.



#9 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 01:01 PM

I just shoot them into a trash can if I do it at home. Do you have the Hornady Head Space tool?

Greg

#10 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 07:30 PM

I don't have the Hornady headspace tool. Do I need it?



#11 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 08:23 PM

You need something to measure with. A 38 Special case will help. Go to the reloading area here and read the sticky on poor man head space gauge. You need it to set your dies up properly.

Greg

#12 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 12:33 PM

How do I upload photos here?  I plan to load 10 rounds with 25gr of H335 and a 125gr TNT bullet and shoot.

I thought photos of brass might be helpful.



#13 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 12:44 PM

Setup an IMGUR account. The FAQ's here tell you how to post them to the board. On IMGUR you just pull  down the link tab and select the BB code lower left, copy and paste it in your thread.

 

Greg



#14 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 02:46 PM

On other sites I can upload photos as long as they are small.

I set up a Flickr account but they wanted to scan my computer and upload all my photos to their site.

I am not ready to turn my computer over to a third party.

 

I just loaded 10 rounds as I said above.  Three chambered and extracted fine and the bullet had no marks.

I seated them a lttle longer than a factory 55gr 223 round.  They drop in with a thunk and fall out freely when inverted.

I will try to shoot them tomorrow at 50 yards.

I will post photos from an image hosting site if I can figure out how to limit them in their zeal to get more photos.

 

https://www.flickr.c...1/in/datetaken/

https://www.flickr.c...5/in/datetaken/

 

https://www.flickr.c...0851@N06/v1Uqef

https://www.flickr.c...0851@N06/tN0x15

 

Which of these can you see? The first 2 or last 2 or both?


Edited by bj139, Feb. 06 2018 - 03:38 PM.


#15 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 04:34 PM

On other sites I can upload photos as long as they are small.

I set up a Flickr account but they wanted to scan my computer and upload all my photos to their site.

I am not ready to turn my computer over to a third party.

 

I just loaded 10 rounds as I said above.  Three chambered and extracted fine and the bullet had no marks.

I seated them a lttle longer than a factory 55gr 223 round.  They drop in with a thunk and fall out freely when inverted.

I will try to shoot them tomorrow at 50 yards.

I will post photos from an image hosting site if I can figure out how to limit them in their zeal to get more photos.

 

https://www.flickr.c...1/in/datetaken/

https://www.flickr.c...5/in/datetaken/

 

https://www.flickr.c...0851@N06/v1Uqef

https://www.flickr.c...0851@N06/tN0x15

 

Which of these can you see? The first 2 or last 2 or both?

 

I see neither

 

Greg



#16 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 04:38 PM

I clicked on the second from the bottom and saw the cases. They looked OK.

 

Greg



#17 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 05:40 PM

 

Because if you tried to seat heavy bullets in the cases the ogive will be back in the case neck. Also based on where the bullets ride in the magazine this is the longest that  can be used and still allow reliable feeding from a magazine due to the location of the ribs.

 

Greg

I did see that the case just misses the front rib in the magazine. Otherwise it would be a tighter fit.



#18 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 05:43 PM

I am really interested in what that shoulder moves to.

 

Greg



#19 OFFLINE   bj139

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 06:19 PM

Maybe I should measure them using your 38 case method before and after firing?



#20 OFFLINE   GLShooter

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Posted Feb. 06 2018 - 06:23 PM

Maybe I should measure them using your 38 case method before and after firing?

 

That's what I would do. You need a baseline.if you want proper records.

 

Greg






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