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#1 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Feb. 04 2018 - 10:26 PM

PSA emails have me thinking more about not having an AK and a good stock of ammo is pretty dumb.

 

Everytime I read up on AK's I seem to come away more confused than when I started. 

Read the cheaper ones don't have the proper front and rear trunnions and rivets to hold up,

and the Eastern European guns have gone up in price and again, so much variety, 

I don't know what I am buying. 

 

Someone said in another thread that PSA has made owning an AR affordable. 

Are their AK's GTG?  

 

All I ask is that it goes bang everytime, is durable enough for more than 

just a few thousand rounds without things starting to crack or come apart, 

and minute of bad guy out to 200 yards. 

It seems like you have to be some kind of AK historian to figure out what is crap

and what is not. Or are AK's not worth the effort from a "be prepared" only point of view. 

 

If anyone can simplify this for me, that would be great.

Cause I'm kinda simple, especially when it comes to AK's. 

 

John




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#2 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 01:06 AM

I thought you still had an AR to buy? ;)




#3 OFFLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 03:23 AM

PSA emails have me thinking more about not having an AK and a good stock of ammo is pretty dumb.

 

Everytime I read up on AK's I seem to come away more confused than when I started. 

Read the cheaper ones don't have the proper front and rear trunnions and rivets to hold up,

and the Eastern European guns have gone up in price and again, so much variety, 

I don't know what I am buying. 

 

Someone said in another thread that PSA has made owning an AR affordable. 

Are their AK's GTG?  

 

All I ask is that it goes bang everytime, is durable enough for more than 

just a few thousand rounds without things starting to crack or come apart, 

and minute of bad guy out to 200 yards. 

It seems like you have to be some kind of AK historian to figure out what is crap

and what is not. Or are AK's not worth the effort from a "be prepared" only point of view. 

 

If anyone can simplify this for me, that would be great.

Cause I'm kinda simple, especially when it comes to AK's. 

 

John

 

 

The PSA Gen2 AK's have done well in the AKOU tests, but I have a friend that has one that he has had to send back to get it to run right.

 

If you want one that is inexpensive, and decent out of the box, the WASR10 is still probably the best bet.  https://www.classicf...semiautowasr-10

 

 

As a general rule of thumb, stay away from the 100% made in the USA models - they are mostly junk with PSA's gen2 AKs trying to change that rule.  If I were going to buy a first AK though, a WASR10 would be my choice.




#4 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 03:46 AM

I thought you still had an AR to buy? ;)

 I do, but it's fun to dream, and I do take notes.

 

One of my SIL's recently bought an inexpensive AR, but it was one of those made with thicker stamped steel,

and I remember reading something about a problem with some of those "extra thick" stamped steel reciver models.

My limited understanding was that they made the receiver steel thcker to try and make up for weakness issues, or poor materials and assembly in other areas,,,,not sure. 

There was also an article on the AK in Firearms News (was the old Shotgun News), that talked about 

the postwar German small arms engineers working with Kalashnikov on his AK design. One of the Germans was the guy who did the STG 44 (I think that's the right model) that saw service right at the end of WWII. 400,000 were made. The germans had trouble with the stamped metal receivers on that rifle too, as it required very precise welding, and it took them years to work out the bugs.

 

The first AK's were stamped, but they could not solve the problems. That's why we have early milled receiver AKs. According to the article, the Soviets decided to stick with the milled receivers until they had enough issued to feel comfy in the initial Cold War period, while continuing work work on perfecting the stamped steel receivers continued. Another German engineer assigned to Kalashnikov's team was an expert in stamped steel production of all kinds of different products who also worked on guns. Even back at the time they solved the stamped steel receiver problem, word was going around then how much these German engineers had to do with making the AK worked, and the Soviets vehemently objected,much preferring  the worker's story of the wounded tank soldier who designed and perfected  the AK.

 

Add in that I am now getting all these emails on my cell phone from PSA which also include their AK's and I start asking questions.  

I never have been able to completely figure out all the Eastern Block variants of the AK, and now that we have a number of AK models being made in the USA, I thought I would ask if there was anyway to get a decent AK without spending lots of dough. 

 

Since my spare AR parts are slowly building up, with the very distant goal of a build, if the AR breaks, I will have many replacement parts for it, so maybe the AK should come first ? 




#5 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 03:53 AM

 

 

The PSA Gen2 AK's have done well in the AKOU tests, but I have a friend that has one that he has had to send back to get it to run right.

 

If you want one that is inexpensive, and decent out of the box, the WASR10 is still probably the best bet.  https://www.classicf...semiautowasr-10

 

 

As a general rule of thumb, stay away from the 100% made in the USA models - they are mostly junk with PSA's gen2 AKs trying to change that rule.  If I were going to buy a first AK though, a WASR10 would be my choice.

 

Many thanks, Marine, I greatly appreciate the advice and the links.

Would you recommend having 2 complete AR's on hand before I think about buying an AK, and the money I would have to put into a decent stock of

ammo not only to train with but to store ? 

 

John




#6 OFFLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 04:01 AM

 

Many thanks, Marine, I greatly appreciate the advice and the links.

Would you recommend having 2 complete AR's on hand before I think about buying an AK, and the money I would have to put into a decent stock of

ammo not only to train with but to store ? 

 

John

 

 

Well, the nice thing about 7.62x39 is that it is generally cheaper than 5.56, so it will be easier to store.  Perhaps you can get lucky like I did a couple of years ago in a divorce sale and get some cases for $99 each.  However, I LOVE shooting my AKs, sometimes more so than my ARs.  It took me a while to get into the AK game, but now that I have a couple I really enjoy them.  One thing you might run into though is whether or not your range requires non metallic ammo - you do have to pay extra to get that with 7.62x39 and it can be hard to find.

 

If I had to start over with zero rifles and start buying again, I would get an AK before I got a second AR - but that's just me.  It depends on what you want out of that second AR I suppose, but that romanian WASR10 would be a fun rifle to add and train with.    




#7 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 04:25 AM

The only Romanian WASR 10 they had did not have a muzzle break or a bayonet lug. Price not bad if that is the good stuff. 

They had some European guns with American parts, like a Riley barrel, but they were really proud of them. 

Then they had the Century Arms type stuff. 

I could probably live without a bayonet lug (would rather have one) but I'd like to have the muzzle break.

I did not see anything in the specs that said that Romanian model had threaded barrel to put a muzzle break on it.

 

I read the Poles made good rifles, but I did not see any. Being Polish on my Mom's side, and the fact

that the Poles have stood by us, I would not mind having a  a Polish rifle, but don't know their quality for sure. 

I better try and catch a couple of more zzzz's.  Thanks again for your help.

You know of a good "AR for Dummies" site ? 




#8 OFFLINE   MadeInUSA

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 09:16 AM

The only Romanian WASR 10 they had did not have a muzzle break or a bayonet lug. Price not bad if that is the good stuff. 
They had some European guns with American parts, like a Riley barrel, but they were really proud of them. 
Then they had the Century Arms type stuff. 
I could probably live without a bayonet lug (would rather have one) but I'd like to have the muzzle break.
I did not see anything in the specs that said that Romanian model had threaded barrel to put a muzzle break on it.
 
I read the Poles made good rifles, but I did not see any. Being Polish on my Mom's side, and the fact
that the Poles have stood by us, I would not mind having a  a Polish rifle, but don't know their quality for sure. 
I better try and catch a couple of more zzzz's.  Thanks again for your help.
You know of a good "AR for Dummies" site ? 


Have you looked at AK47/74 Operators Union on Youtube?

Also, check out Atlantic Firearms. They specialize in selling AKs and roller lock firearms.


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#9 OFFLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 09:23 AM

The only Romanian WASR 10 they had did not have a muzzle break or a bayonet lug. Price not bad if that is the good stuff. 
They had some European guns with American parts, like a Riley barrel, but they were really proud of them. 
Then they had the Century Arms type stuff. 
I could probably live without a bayonet lug (would rather have one) but I'd like to have the muzzle break.
I did not see anything in the specs that said that Romanian model had threaded barrel to put a muzzle break on it.
 
I read the Poles made good rifles, but I did not see any. Being Polish on my Mom's side, and the fact
that the Poles have stood by us, I would not mind having a  a Polish rifle, but don't know their quality for sure. 
I better try and catch a couple of more zzzz's.  Thanks again for your help.
You know of a good "AR for Dummies" site ? 


That was just the cheapest deal on a WASR, but you can find them with the features you want. Many of these are imported by century and they so have to have some US made parts in them, its the century rifles they make here, specifically the RAS47, that you want to skip if you can (cast trunions). My underfolder is a Century AK63d, and it is a Hungarian rifle with some US made parts and is a wonderful rifle.


The AK operators union site is a great place to get going - http://www.akoperato...nlocal4774.com/


Their YouTube channel for reviews and tutorials - https://www.youtube....OperatorsUnion/

Their torture tests really put the screws to a lot of these rifles and point out potential flaws. It doesnt mean every sample of that particular rifle will perform as they do in their tests, but it is a good place to get an idea of what you are looking for.

By the way, here is a wasr10 with the bayo lug and muzzle device - https://www.budsguns.../77440/redirect


#10 OFFLINE   adair_usmc

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 09:58 AM

Last years 10k round update on their WASR - https://m.youtube.co...h?v=kJn6SYFbHSw

If you get a good deal on the PSA though, they did pass their torture test, which can be found here - https://m.youtube.co...h?v=ULWb-83QW_c


#11 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 12:48 PM

Have you looked at AK47/74 Operators Union on Youtube?

Also, check out Atlantic Firearms. They specialize in selling AKs and roller lock firearms.

Thanks !




#12 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Feb. 05 2018 - 12:52 PM

Last years 10k round update on their WASR - https://m.youtube.co...h?v=kJn6SYFbHSw

If you get a good deal on the PSA though, they did pass their torture test, which can be found here - https://m.youtube.co...h?v=ULWb-83QW_c

 

You have given me enough to keep busy for a while. 

I am going to enjoy learning about AK's. 

Thank you !




#13 OFFLINE   gmor

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Posted Feb. 07 2018 - 12:52 PM

The Romanians have typically been the least expensive and most numerous on the market. I also have a Chinese and a Hungarian model, and recently bought a PSA. These 3 all have a better fit/finish than the Romanians. If I were you I would just buy the PSA AK with the folding stock. 


Edited by gmor, Feb. 07 2018 - 12:53 PM.



#14 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Feb. 07 2018 - 02:09 PM

Have you looked at AK47/74 Operators Union on Youtube?

Also, check out Atlantic Firearms. They specialize in selling AKs and roller lock firearms.


For sure AK OU 47/74. Robski has an awesome channel.

I have an N-PAP and I'd say first and foremost- don't get one if you want to make any changes. The parts aren't the same as others (damn Yugo) which makes them hard to find and expensive. I have a Zhukov stick on mine and it's the only thing that redeemed it.

I would get an AR and ammo orders of magnitude more than the AK. I like my AK but it's not the same.


#15 OFFLINE   longie

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Posted Feb. 07 2018 - 07:21 PM

Ive read that Waffen Works (Werks?) are good, and supposedly Arsenal is one of the best but also one of the more expensive options. Im interested too, but the at the rate of my gun purchases, itll be a while


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#16 OFFLINE   NONEYA

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Posted Feb. 07 2018 - 08:42 PM

Are you looking for new or used?




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#17 OFFLINE   longie

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Posted Feb. 08 2018 - 03:31 PM

Noneya, if that was at me, probably new. If it was directed at the OP, disregard my answer


#18 OFFLINE   Retcop

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Posted Feb. 08 2018 - 06:50 PM

Are you looking for new or used?

I prefer new, but am open to used in good condition...




#19 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Feb. 08 2018 - 11:12 PM

During the Obama years 7.62x39 was about $40 cheaper a case. Now- from one of my favorite vendors:

 

SGAMMO 7.62x39 Wolf case $227 Shipped http://www.sgammo.co...ale/762x39-ammo

 

223 Wolf steel cased equivalent: $221 Shipped http://www.sgammo.co...tary-classic-st

 

AR mags are running around $12 when not on sale but you can pick them up for $8 each often.

 

AK mags are about the same regular price but on sale less often. http://www.sgammo.co...d-open-follower

 

A less expensive AR and AK are almost the same cost now and running them is also about the same so... if it isn't for the fun factor (which is totally reasonable) it's really about use and what you want the platform to do.




#20 OFFLINE   Jaeger48

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Posted Feb. 08 2018 - 11:17 PM

 

All I ask is that it goes bang everytime, is durable enough for more than 

just a few thousand rounds without things starting to crack or come apart, 

and minute of bad guy out to 200 yards. 

It seems like you have to be some kind of AK historian to figure out what is crap

and what is not. Or are AK's not worth the effort from a "be prepared" only point of view. 

 

 

 

John

 

 

If I were to get another AK I'd look at a WASR 10 or Vepr.  







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