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To tighten, or not to tighten...


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#1 OFFLINE   NewARBuilder87

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Posted Jun. 09 2018 - 04:20 PM

On my 2nd build now, I'm at the point of installing the handguard, as I'm trying to tune it to where the rail lines up, I get ever-so-close, but hit a wall. Now if I loosen it to where it lines up, it'll be under-torqued, but don't know if I should push it tighter so it'll line up. So I'm at an impass at what to do, open to suggestions. I'll attach a pic of how close it is at the wall.15b8e5ae07e5fbc66f7f9a618651dfcd.jpg

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#2 ONLINE   towtruck

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Posted Jun. 09 2018 - 04:23 PM

Back the nut off once or twice and re-torque...it will get there. 


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#3 ONLINE   bamashooter

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Posted Jun. 09 2018 - 07:02 PM

Definitely do something with the nut be it back and forth, a shim or two, etc. This could start a war but I'll ask; did you lube the threads on nut/ rcvr?




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#4 ONLINE   MadeInUSA

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Posted Jun. 10 2018 - 07:59 AM

Back the nut off once or twice and re-torque...it will get there. 


This, its very common to tighten it then back it off a d retighten it several times.


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#5 ONLINE   ScoutnUSA

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Posted Jun. 10 2018 - 08:09 AM

I am offering an idea as well as asking a question here.

I could be wrong here, and if I am someone correct me.

If that nut is also the barrel nut and not just another nut.

BUT. Isn't the torque range of the nut fairly broad? Something like 20 - 80 ft lbs? Have you tightened to the 80 lbs yet?

 

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#6 OFFLINE   Blacktree

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Posted Jun. 10 2018 - 12:19 PM

Yes, the barrel nut has a pretty broad torque range. But if for some reason you can't get within that range, you could try shims. Use the thinnest shim(s) needed to get the job done.




#7 OFFLINE   NewARBuilder87

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Posted Jun. 11 2018 - 08:16 PM

Lube, yes, haven't tried shims, they'd put the nut too far forward from the receiver, making the handguard have a space between itself and the upper. I have also tried the tighten, loosen, tighten, etc method and got so close it hurts, but still a little short. I'm gonna throw my idea out there, knowing I'm probably gonna get chewed a new one for it, but I've been thinking about getting out ye 'ol dremmel and shaving the barrel nut 1/16th. That'd solve my problem I'm sure, but want to know why I shouldn't. Thanks again y'all, always so helpful, I don't mind any advice or critiques y'all have for me, I learn every day

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#8 ONLINE   towtruck

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Posted Jun. 11 2018 - 08:19 PM

If your going to cut the barrel nut that will put it too close and your guard will hit the upper...also if you were to do it it needs to be lathed perfectly straight and not Dremmeled. 




#9 ONLINE   towtruck

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Posted Jun. 11 2018 - 08:26 PM

My only suggestion is to lube it up with some white grease, and torque that bad boy on there. Again, back and forth with the nut if you need just a little more. The only thing I would try if that does not work is to have the receiver squared. They sell tools that you can buy that will square up the receiver and you can take a little or take a lot away depending on what you need. I would try that and take a little and try the nut again...rinse and repeat until it fits.  




#10 OFFLINE   NewARBuilder87

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Posted Jun. 18 2018 - 02:12 AM

At this point, I'm beyond torque range, it simply won't go any tighter, not without risk of cracking the receiver. I'm really almost out of ideas, disappointed I'm having such a time getting this rail installed. Now the last 2 pieces to the build, BCG and CH, will be here later today for the BCG, sometime tomorrow for the CH. If I could find a machinist with a lathe, I could take 1/16in off the barrel nut without any negative consequences, I hope? Thanks again everyone for your input, one day I'll get through a build without any issues... ONE DAY...

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#11 ONLINE   towtruck

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Posted Jun. 19 2018 - 11:13 AM

At this point, I'm beyond torque range, it simply won't go any tighter, not without risk of cracking the receiver. I'm really almost out of ideas, disappointed I'm having such a time getting this rail installed. Now the last 2 pieces to the build, BCG and CH, will be here later today for the BCG, sometime tomorrow for the CH. If I could find a machinist with a lathe, I could take 1/16in off the barrel nut without any negative consequences, I hope? Thanks again everyone for your input, one day I'll get through a build without any issues... ONE DAY...

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You don't need that much material removed. I would try lapping the receiver as you only need approx. .003" of material removed. Think about your 1/16" number for a second.....if your hand guard hits the upper now what's it going to do after you cut that nut?  The receiver threads are 18 threads per inch.....you only need about 1/32 of a turn or 1/32 of an 18th inch. 

 

If squaring the receiver did not get it there I would buy a shim kit and shim it back to the next set of holes. The gap at the rail to upper will not be big enough to care about.


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#12 ONLINE   bj139

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Posted Jun. 19 2018 - 04:01 PM

I have not seen mentioned elsewhere but I did this on my last barrel install and it worked more smoothly.

 

Put some grease on the front flange of the barrel extension where the barrel nut contacts and a little in the barrel nut where it contacts this flange as well as the threads on nut and receiver.

 

Then tighten and loosen repeatedly as others have suggested.


Edited by bj139, Jun. 19 2018 - 04:02 PM.



#13 OFFLINE   hogginlong

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Posted Jul. 07 2018 - 09:53 PM

Another reason to use Aero Precision M4E1 uppers!




#14 OFFLINE   hzhardy

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Posted Jul. 07 2018 - 11:28 PM

Cutting on the end thread end of the barrel nut will not accomplish anything as the mechanical interference is the inside shoulder.


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#15 OFFLINE   NewARBuilder87

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Posted Jul. 08 2018 - 08:35 PM

Not too sure what you mean by that, but I'm here to report that the problem is resolved!!!

Cutting on the end thread end of the barrel nut will not accomplish anything as the mechanical interference is the inside shoulder.

I ended up just trying the barrel nut on another stripped upper I had on my 3rd builds upper/lower, and it ended up being able to line up nicely, while still being tight enough, and barely... Because, through much internet surfing, I discovered this type of barrel nut is common among free floating handguards, so slight topic change, I'd like anyone's take on the handguards the have the 2-5 screws all tightened on the under-side of the handguard towards the receiver. I'd hate to run in to this issue with that type of handguard which I prefer, so I'm willing to hear pro's/con's of handguards that attach in other methods besides screwing in to the barrel nut directly. Thanks again everyone for all your help and opinions, y'all make me a better builder every day!!!
408

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#16 ONLINE   bamashooter

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Posted Jul. 08 2018 - 08:51 PM

I have multiples of both and have had no issues, slippage, all that. Based on that, I now prefer those with the "clamp-on", non-attaching to barrel nut style. 




#17 OFFLINE   NewARBuilder87

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Posted Jul. 08 2018 - 10:51 PM

But the clamp-on style, is it still considered a "free float" handguard? As long as I don't hear any con's that say otherwise, I plan on trying out a few, Midwest Industries makes a sweet M-Lok handguard that would be BOSS on my 3rd build, 300BLK pistol, BTW, info will be posted in the future when its more than a complete lower, minus buffer system, and upper. Thanks for the comment, anyone else care to weigh in on handguard attachment methods pro's/con's?

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#18 ONLINE   Longhair

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Posted Jul. 08 2018 - 11:12 PM

It absolutely is a free float system. They clamp on the barrel nut instead of screwing to it. I've got three of 'em, and they are just fine.


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#19 ONLINE   bamashooter

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Posted Jul. 09 2018 - 07:10 AM

But the clamp-on style, is it still considered a "free float" handguard? As long as I don't hear any con's that say otherwise, I plan on trying out a few, Midwest Industries makes a sweet M-Lok handguard that would be BOSS on my 3rd build, 300BLK pistol, BTW, info will be posted in the future when its more than a complete lower, minus buffer system, and upper. Thanks for the comment, anyone else care to weigh in on handguard attachment methods pro's/con's?

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Months ago I ran across a comment posted by gshayed on how he used and was satisfied with Matrix Arms handguards. I took the plunge and installed one on my first pistol build and couldn't be more pleased. Just installed a second on another build. Very affordable, well made (imo), non-indexing, clamp-on style. It calls for a 1 3/16" crow foot / wrench. A 30mm should work as well. 9/64" allen for the screws. https://www.joebobou...tm#ReviewHeader


Edited by bamashooter, Jul. 09 2018 - 07:11 AM.



#20 ONLINE   ozarkpugs

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Posted Jul. 09 2018 - 07:47 AM

Second that on Matrix from Joe Bob ,I purchased one for pistol build now I've replaced 2 much more expensive ones with Matrix m lock

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