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#1 OFFLINE   narcosos2001

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Posted Jul. 07 2009 - 09:39 PM

I'm thinking about buying a 5.7 upper that a local shop has for $700.
Is this a good price, and I wanted to know if whoever owns the upper is happy with it.
It seems like a nice piece out of the ordinary and would be easier for the wife to shoot than the 5.56.
Any comments or pics are appreciated


#2 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 07 2009 - 09:59 PM

There are two AR57 upper manufacturers out there. PAW and ATI.

ATI is by fare superior of the two. Also the PAW chamber is very loose and will destroy the brass to the point you cannot reload it.


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#3 OFFLINE   mrmetro

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Posted Jul. 25 2009 - 05:13 PM

There are two AR57 upper manufacturers out there. PAW and ATI.

ATI is by fare superior of the two. Also the PAW chamber is very loose and will destroy the brass to the point you cannot reload it.


Just like to know where your getting this info about the PWA AR57 upper destroying brass - I have read numerous, numerous reviews re: this upper and all have been above average, not a bad thing said - period ...???? Never read one thing about loose bolts, chambers or chewed brass???

I'm a novice to the 5.7 and am considering the PWA upper so please respond with some credible information and sources where i can find and read this if you don't mind - thanks-

Edited by mrmetro, Jul. 25 2009 - 05:28 PM.



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#4 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 26 2009 - 01:27 AM

I am the credible source.

My company is the only manufacture of 5.7x28 ammunition other then FN. We have over 8 different rounds all of which out perform the FN ammunition by at least 30%.

We supplied the ammunition to the developer of the AR57 for it's development stage before the creator sold the rights to PAW. My partner and I watched as the AR57 worked it's way through development from the beginning.


So I am the source.


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#5 OFFLINE   mrmetro

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Posted Jul. 26 2009 - 09:41 AM

I am the credible source.

My company is the only manufacture of 5.7x28 ammunition other then FN. We have over 8 different rounds all of which out perform the FN ammunition by at least 30%.

We supplied the ammunition to the developer of the AR57 for it's development stage before the creator sold the rights to PAW. My partner and I watched as the AR57 worked it's way through development from the beginning.


So I am the source.


(edited) No need to get defensive - WoW - Mr. Pantzeer I'm not challenging anyone, geeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzz...

I have purchased one of these and as stated you are the only one that has posted up anything that would be considered negative about this upper of course I don't have the time and or sources to scour the whole planet looking for information.

Maybe I shouldn't have bought one - huh?

Seeing as you had a working relationship with those people I don't think their gonna be real happy with your postings and even more to the point why didn't you inform them of this during the developmental stage ?

My partner and I watched as the AR57 worked it's way through development from the beginning


Being a small business owner you must realize how important it is to receive and read negative postings or reports from owners or testers of any of your products.

It can be very damaging from a future business perspective. I hope for your sake everything you are reporting here is fact. I have already purchased this upper and I can tell you if it chews any of my brass I will be one very angry Dog.

I have contacted a company representative about this allegation.

I am new here and certainly don't want to start out on the wrong foot - but I think if your opinion of this upper isn't quite spot on someone needs to bring it to light.

Edited by mrmetro, Jul. 26 2009 - 10:11 AM.



#6 OFFLINE   mrmetro

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Posted Jul. 26 2009 - 05:32 PM

Further Update:

Well after corresponding by email with a representative (sales manager) of AR57 it appears the information you gave about your Ammo being used on the prototypes is completely false.

The gentleman I exchanged emails with has been involved with the sale and development of their AR57 from the start and they have no idea who you are, or who your company is, and what you represent. As stated, by him to me the only ammo that was used in the developement and production of their AR57 upper was produced by FNH, PERIOD.

If anyone would like to dispute this - or read these emails please contact me by PM and I'd be glad to send them along. If any moderator has any doubts about the validity of this post, please PM or email me I'd be glad to produce the email exchanges for your verification.

As far as the bolt chewing ammo I was given a 100% satisfaction guarantee if I don't like anything about the Upper they will refund my money 100% - I'm satisfied -

One more thing Fiochhi also produces 5.7x28 ammo as well as FNH ...
Defense Review

Edited by mrmetro, Jul. 27 2009 - 02:32 PM.



#7 OFFLINE   mrmetro

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Posted Jul. 26 2009 - 09:04 PM

It seems the owner of Elite Ammo has nothing further to say?

I would sure like to hear a rebuttal...?

Seeing as you have nothing further to say and feel the need to stay silent so this will just blow away, here's what I have to say:

I for one have no use for a company that makes false accusations, all the while trying to promote it's legitimacy in the market by slamming others, very, very poor business practice. (This is pretty much a universal sentiment)

If you were the last Ammo maker of 5.7 on the planet - I wouldn't buy a round from your company...!!!

Edited by mrmetro, Jul. 27 2009 - 06:46 AM.



#8 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 27 2009 - 09:54 PM

Sorry I was busy working. I would like to see these emails. I would be more then happy to sue him for making false claims. PAW bought the rights and the design to the AR57. We provided ammunition to the original developer in exchange for a functioning AR57 upper when development was done. We never received this upper and found out after the fact that the developer had sold the rights to his design to PAW.


You find out the entire history of the AR57 development at fivesevenforum.com.


Fiochhi made SS197 under contract for FN and sold it labeled as such. It was never sold as a Fiochhi catalog product.
Here is what the box's look like.
Posted Image

Here is what most of Belgium made SS195 box's look like.
Posted Image




If you want to have a battle of whits about the 5.7x28 at least arm yourself.


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#9 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 27 2009 - 09:57 PM

Here is a video of us testing 5.7x28 tracers with the AR57.




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#10 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 27 2009 - 10:00 PM

Here is a link concerning what the AR57 does to brass back in December 08.


http://fivesevenforu...=...&hilit=ar57


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#11 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 01:10 AM

Seeing as you have nothing further to say and feel the need to stay silent so this will just blow away, here's what I have to say:

I for one have no use for a company that makes false accusations, all the while trying to promote it's legitimacy in the market by slamming others, very, very poor business practice. (This is pretty much a universal sentiment)

If you were the last Ammo maker of 5.7 on the planet - I wouldn't buy a round from your company...!!!



Here is a link to another forum I and my company have nothing to do with. In it they discuss the AR57 and who developed it. Rhineland Arms posted teaser pics for years over at the fiveseven forum.

http://www.uzitalk.c...ead.php?t=27082


It seems the owner of Elite Ammo has nothing further to say?

I would sure like to hear a rebuttal...?


How much more do you want. Sorry I did not hover over this thread with tepid angst waiting for your postings like I do waiting on a zit to swell to the right size to pop.

I have a company to run.

Edited by panzermk2, Jul. 28 2009 - 01:12 AM.



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#12 OFFLINE   mrmetro

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 06:18 AM

It seems there is a problem here - two people claiming different things ...

You are acting like a Dick, why don't you knock it off .

You the one that started this storm with your over the top response to a simple question looking for proof of damages to the brass ... You made the claim of the damage and I asked for proof like anyone would that just went out on the arm for 500 beans for a friggin' upper.

I contacted the company and basically the guy said your "full of shat" - I'm reporting what he said - don't hold me up as the bad guy ...!!!

Edited by mrmetro, Aug. 06 2009 - 06:15 AM.



#13 OFFLINE   mrmetro

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 09:10 AM

I hope you will stop being obnoxious -

Edited by mrmetro, Aug. 01 2009 - 08:13 AM.



#14 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 08:20 PM

Can you explain Rhineland arms? No you can't. Have the PAW sales guy respond to it. Have him also respond to the dozens of AR57 owners on the fivesevenforum that have their brass destroyed.

Call me names and you don't like my response? Well you have it.

Edited by panzermk2, Jul. 28 2009 - 08:21 PM.



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#15 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 08:22 PM

FYI the other company is called ATI and other then using a PS90 mag is it's own stand alone design.


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#16 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 08:37 PM

Here is a little history and time line.


http://fivesevenforu...w=unread#unread

A cut and paste from a current post on another forum. The person responding is not me but my partner and the other owner of Elite Ammunition.


Guys, this is BS. I happened to be around when the AR57 was being developed in Bellevue, WA.



Well, since you're interested in facts, let me share a few with you.

The AR57 was NOT 'developed' in Washington, but in Ft.Worth Texas by Thomas at Rhineland Arms. How do I know? I assisted him in developing it, and provided him thousands of rounds off ammunition, on which I was stiffed for payment and again stiffed on the promise of the first two units off the production floor
.

I even shot about 300 rounds from the first prototype at Wade's Range.


No, you didn't. The first prototype was fired at Rhinelands range in Texas, and was later destroyed.



The prototype (as expected) developed some wear marks after 10,000 rounds, which was later corrected in production models.


Wrong. THe actual prototype self-destructed after just a few thousand.


I have shot at least a half dozen of them and I can say that they are great guns.


... ... ... [waiting on the shameless product placement sure to come next from him ... ... ...

... I am especially thankful to those guys for making "AR57" branded mags that fit my PS90 and cost HALF of what factory mags cost.



Then you should actually say "Konsamnida," as they're Korean made and imported my American Tactical Imports, genius.



Bottom line, I have worked with these guns more than the avarage Joe and can report only good things about their quality.




You've worked with 'these guys' more than the average joe becuase you're part of that company, Duh!!!





Guys, please dont knock a good product without first-hand knowledge. What some yahoo posts on a forum is not gospel and repeating it elsewhere is not cool.







Ohh, and per the case, it looks to me like some ya-yo stuck the round into some other gun that was not made for it. I have a few 9mm cases that I found at a range that look like that - some moron had fed them into his .40S&W. Possibly someone could have fit it into a .223 or some 'wildcat' rifle.


WRONG. That is a 5.7x28mm case from an AR57 upper receiver. I have hundreds of examples taken from my guns personally.

Here's a pic, for example.


Posted Image

Posted Image



I simply dare you to call me a liar.

And I think you've been told before, businesses who wish to advertise on this board have to pony up the cash, the same as the rest of us.



End of post.




You first mistake was to call me a liar also. I was the one who took those pictures also.


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#17 OFFLINE   mrmetro

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 08:40 PM

FYI the other company is called ATI and other then using a PS90 mag is it's own stand alone design.


I suggest you seek help - !!!

Looks like your partner has been bitten by that same self defensive bug, as he's as over the top as you are - both of you come across as looking very childish fighting and arguing with people on foolish firearms forums - Sure doesn't bode well for your business reputation, and doesn't make you look very successful as you have all this time to run your mouth on the Internet.

Edited: Since the above writing "the partner, Ryan" at Elite Ammo has been identified as a complete fraud, and everything he stated about his Military record was a complete fabrication, nothing was true, he no longer works for Elite ammo, shame really.

Edited by mrmetro, Nov. 27 2009 - 07:59 AM.



#18 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 08:42 PM

And you need to get help about that problem of shooting your mouth off before you get all the facts.


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#19 OFFLINE   mrmetro

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 08:52 PM

And you need to get help about that problem of shooting your mouth off before you get all the facts.


I have the facts as presented by the sales Rep - he tells me, I tell you what he tells me...

Honestly, if you just kept your mouth shut or better yet just gave me a link to go read for myself and passed on the opportunity to plug yourself and your company we wouldn't be having this discussion would we?

Edited by mrmetro, Aug. 01 2009 - 08:15 AM.



#20 OFFLINE   panzermk2

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Posted Jul. 28 2009 - 09:16 PM

I did by PM.

Besides I already "plug my company" I am a forum sponsor.

I just don't' take crap from newbs who think they are the shat.

Edited by panzermk2, Jul. 28 2009 - 09:18 PM.



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