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#1 OFFLINE   dupa220

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Posted Sep. 06 2009 - 08:16 PM

Anybody try these yet? I just ordered one gonna give it a try! It's supposed to be a run dry BCG.


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#2 ONLINE   Nwatson99

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Posted Sep. 06 2009 - 08:20 PM

Nope, hope to hear a report from you.


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#3 OFFLINE   dupa220

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Posted Sep. 06 2009 - 08:24 PM

Nope, hope to hear a report from you.

Hope to get it before next weekend. I'll let everyone know!


#4 ONLINE   Nwatson99

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Posted Sep. 06 2009 - 08:26 PM

Please let us know, the reports I have read about Amelon and their micro-slik is the route I am going.


#5 OFFLINE   dupa220

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Posted Sep. 06 2009 - 08:30 PM

Please let us know, the reports I have read about Amelon and their micro-slik is the route I am going.

How about the Titanium Nitride? anything on them? I can't find a lot of info.


#6 ONLINE   Nwatson99

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Posted Sep. 06 2009 - 08:32 PM

How about the Titanium Nitride? anything on them? I can't find a lot of info.



I think DPMS still coats their BCG with it, I have one that is coated.


#7 OFFLINE   TigerStripe

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Posted Sep. 06 2009 - 10:41 PM

As soon as I can get the parts I'm going to have Dan at Amelon Microslick the internals and Cerakote the externals. Having read JC's (jchtrh) reports on each, I want to check it out myself. If he says it's good then it's good.

I would contact Amelon about coating the bolt carrier group and part of the charging handle that makes contact inside the upper with Microslick.

In my opinion Titanium Nitride doesn't provide any better or extra qualities that chrome does on a bolt carrier group.


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#8 OFFLINE   bfausett84

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Posted Sep. 07 2009 - 08:24 AM

I wonder if you could get one Teflon coted bcg, or have one teflon coted


#9 OFFLINE   TigerStripe

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Posted Sep. 07 2009 - 09:43 AM

I wonder if you could get one Teflon coted bcg, or have one teflon coted


Walter Birdson used to coat most parts with Black T. He passed away and I don't know if anyone to charge and kept the business going. Neil knew him very well and he may know.


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#10 OFFLINE   +Zeke+

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Posted Sep. 07 2009 - 10:16 AM

POF uses a coating that is called NP3, which is a nickel teflon mix. You can get it done yourself on your gear by Robar. Supposedly POF has done a torture test that has run up to 70K rounds without a failure with a NP3 coated BCG and upper receiver.

TiN is about as good chrome in a gun as TigerStripe said. While the TiN may be a hair harder it is a bit more brittle. TiN coatings on firing pins have been known to occasionally chip off causing primer punctures. Going to a black Diamond coat might be better and still should be only for non-impact parts, like in the lower receiver. But none of these have any inherent lubricity.

As for Fail Zero, getting info is real hard. I've been hunting and I can't even find its general coating composition. All their test data is only from in-house. It's vague and smacks of a dog and pony show right now. It may be great, but they keep it all too close to the vest. I'd like to see a lot more 3rd party evals. Also you can't even try in on your gear. They limit civilians to only buying their proprietary BCG and upper combo. They say milspec, but there have been a lot of upgrades since the milspec came out. What if you wanted to be sure the bolt was mag particle tested before coating or wanted to use a match grade BCG or preferred a different style upper? No luck there because at this time they won't coat the gear you want. Buy theirs or nothing.

It's almost the opposite with MicroSlick. Lots of independent evals and you can get just about anything you want coated. Want your favorite BBQ grill spatula coated in MicroSlick? No problem. Lots of believers on this forum.

Right now I'd recommend MicroSlick or NP3 simply because they have shown to be effective, easy to get done, and there is a lot of user data on them right now.

Fail Zero might be the best thing ever, but the company hasn't made it easy to find out. I'm not going to buy their proprietary BCG and upper just to try their coating. They need to adjust their business model and start getting it out into independent evaluators' hands first.

Edited by +Zeke+, Sep. 07 2009 - 10:19 AM.



#11 OFFLINE   pleaforwar

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Posted Sep. 08 2009 - 01:49 AM

Walter Birdson used to coat most parts with Black T. He passed away and I don't know if anyone to charge and kept the business going. Neil knew him very well and he may know.


TS


It's a terrible thing that he passed away. :sad: I hope that someone continues his coatings, I think the sharpest looking Springer 1911's had the Black T finish.


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#12 OFFLINE   pleaforwar

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Posted Sep. 08 2009 - 01:53 AM

POF uses a coating that is called NP3, which is a nickel teflon mix. You can get it done yourself on your gear by Robar. Supposedly POF has done a torture test that has run up to 70K rounds without a failure with a NP3 coated BCG and upper receiver.

TiN is about as good chrome in a gun as TigerStripe said. While the TiN may be a hair harder it is a bit more brittle. TiN coatings on firing pins have been known to occasionally chip off causing primer punctures. Going to a black Diamond coat might be better and still should be only for non-impact parts, like in the lower receiver. But none of these have any inherent lubricity.

As for Fail Zero, getting info is real hard. I've been hunting and I can't even find its general coating composition. All their test data is only from in-house. It's vague and smacks of a dog and pony show right now. It may be great, but they keep it all too close to the vest. I'd like to see a lot more 3rd party evals. Also you can't even try in on your gear. They limit civilians to only buying their proprietary BCG and upper combo. They say milspec, but there have been a lot of upgrades since the milspec came out. What if you wanted to be sure the bolt was mag particle tested before coating or wanted to use a match grade BCG or preferred a different style upper? No luck there because at this time they won't coat the gear you want. Buy theirs or nothing.

It's almost the opposite with MicroSlick. Lots of independent evals and you can get just about anything you want coated. Want your favorite BBQ grill spatula coated in MicroSlick? No problem. Lots of believers on this forum.

Right now I'd recommend MicroSlick or NP3 simply because they have shown to be effective, easy to get done, and there is a lot of user data on them right now.

Fail Zero might be the best thing ever, but the company hasn't made it easy to find out. I'm not going to buy their proprietary BCG and upper just to try their coating. They need to adjust their business model and start getting it out into independent evaluators' hands first.


Great post Zeke. Couldn't have said it better.

I was really compelled when I first saw Fail Zero BCG's, and considered picking one up to test it out. Then I saw the price tag. For all I know the product may be worth the price, but for a cool $120 cheaper I can get a product that hasn't failed me yet, a Young Mfg. Chrome BCG.

To the OP, if you do decide to pick one up, please do give us a range report. I will be definitely interested in your results.


#13 OFFLINE   pzkwV424

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Posted Sep. 08 2009 - 03:27 AM

Well zeke beat me out. Man I hate working and trying to post. Added 5 min after the original post.
TiN. Some people say Tin. Titanium Nitride is a gold colored coating that is used in machine tooling as a coating. Sometimes in decoration due to the gold coloring. The main properties are high tempeture resistance and abrasion resistance.
Teflon is a polycarbonate (plastic) that is used as a lubricant in injection molding (as a additive to the material). It has a midrange to high midrange melting point. Some what less than 700 degreesF. One thing is it is mildly wear resistant and is usefel in none stick cooking.

Edited by pzkwV424, Sep. 08 2009 - 03:31 AM.



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#14 OFFLINE   motorwerks

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Posted Sep. 08 2009 - 03:54 AM

How about the Titanium Nitride? anything on them? I can't find a lot of info.


I borrowed one form a friend a few weeks back. It Seemed SLICK at first then I polished the bearing surfaces on my RRA BCG and Heated it up to about 200 degrees (my wife would kill me is she saw me throw it into the oven) and lubed it up real good with Mil-tec then dropped it in. Seems to be smoother then the Ti was. :thumb:


#15 OFFLINE   +Zeke+

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Posted Sep. 08 2009 - 09:03 AM

Well zeke beat me out. Man I hate working and trying to post. Added 5 min after the original post.
TiN. Some people say Tin. Titanium Nitride is a gold colored coating that is used in machine tooling as a coating. Sometimes in decoration due to the gold coloring. The main properties are high tempeture resistance and abrasion resistance.
Teflon is a polycarbonate (plastic) that is used as a lubricant in injection molding (as a additive to the material). It has a midrange to high midrange melting point. Some what less than 700 degreesF. One thing is it is mildly wear resistant and is usefel in none stick cooking.


Takes me about 15 minutes to crank out a post like that with my fact checking and snail slow typing. Good to know there's someone even slower than me out there. :laugh:


TiN works great on cutting tools because it is very hard. But it doesn't take shock very well. The jarring and impacts of the bolt cycling doesn't play to TiN's strengths. That requires torsion strength.

For a pure metal coating I would like to see boron given a try soon, but until then nickel or chrome have pretty high hardness and can take the impact torture.


#16 OFFLINE   GUNMAN556

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Posted Sep. 08 2009 - 12:21 PM

i used the microslik on my bcg and internals when i ceracoated my barrel and i really like the slik and the ceracoat(black) barrel was stainless 1/8 twist


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#17 OFFLINE   dupa220

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Posted Oct. 01 2009 - 09:03 AM

Well I finally got out to the range with it! I put it in my Rock River for the test, and ran 100 rds of American Eagle tactical XM193 55 gr fmj. Ran fine NO problems. Went back the next day, with no cleaning of any kind. Shot 200 more of the same ammo,then I got out my old Blank Adapter and shot 40 rds of Blanks! Again no problems. Waited three days, again no cleaning, and shot 200 more rounds of mixed ammo, Wolf, Remington, UMC. NO failures! This thing is DIRTIER than a Bill Clinton Intern! So far so good, I may have a winner here.

Edited by dupa220, Oct. 01 2009 - 10:20 AM.



#18 OFFLINE   Steelborn1

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Posted Oct. 01 2009 - 09:17 AM

Well I fianlly got out to the range with it! I put it in my Rock River for the test, and ran 100 rds of American Eagle tactical XM193 55 gr fmj. Ran fine NO problems. Went back the next day, with no cleaning of any kind. Shot 200 more of the same ammo,then I got out my old Blank Adapter and shot 40 rds of Blanks! Again no problems. Waited three days, again no cleaning, and shot 200 more rounds of mixed ammo, Wolf, Remington, PMC. NO failures! This thing is DIRTIER than a Bill Clinton Intern! So far so good, I may have a winner here.



:lol: Its funny cause its true! Good to hear it is holding up. I am learning a lot about these coatings. Keep em coming.


#19 OFFLINE   TheEtruscan

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Posted Oct. 01 2009 - 10:04 PM

POF uses a coating that is called NP3, which is a nickel teflon mix. You can get it done yourself on your gear by Robar. Supposedly POF has done a torture test that has run up to 70K rounds without a failure with a NP3 coated BCG and upper receiver.


Interesting. I wonder who they bought the gun from for this test.


#20 OFFLINE   +Zeke+

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Posted Oct. 01 2009 - 11:59 PM

Interesting. I wonder who they bought the gun from for this test.



I'd say POF used one of their own factory AR's. POF makes a darn fine gun. Top shelf gear.


Well I finally got out to the range with it! I put it in my Rock River for the test, and ran 100 rds of American Eagle tactical XM193 55 gr fmj. Ran fine NO problems. Went back the next day, with no cleaning of any kind. Shot 200 more of the same ammo,then I got out my old Blank Adapter and shot 40 rds of Blanks! Again no problems. Waited three days, again no cleaning, and shot 200 more rounds of mixed ammo, Wolf, Remington, UMC. NO failures! This thing is DIRTIER than a Bill Clinton Intern! So far so good, I may have a winner here.


I do like hearing that.

Want to learn more? Since you own their product you have the right, by law, to get a MSDS from them on Fail Zero.

Lots of good info on a MSDS. They get cute and you can report them to OSHA.

I'd love to see a Fail Zero MSDS. Likely will have the major components listed or at least inferred on it.





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