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Accurizing an AR15


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#1 OFFLINE   ipser

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 02:30 PM

My AR15, which is a RR lower and Colt HBAR upper with a 4x20 scope, is shooting groups of about 1.5" at 50 yards with a variety of ammo, both factory and reloaded.

I know it's not me because I can punch adjoining holes with my Marlin 30-30 with peep sights under the same conditions.

The accuracy is not terrible for tactical purposes but obviously it's not a rifle that will win any competitions. I would have expected better from an HBAR.

Any suggestions for accurizing the rifle? Where should I start my research?


#2 OFFLINE   hsracer201

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 02:35 PM

Where should I start my research?



with a better, lighter trigger. :wink:

lots of folks like the drop in 2 stages, which i believe RRA makes. there is also a fella out there you can send your trigger group to and he will lighten it to either 3 or 4 lbs, whichever you prefer.

stock triggers suck IMO.


#3 OFFLINE   ipser

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 02:38 PM

with a better, lighter trigger. :wink:

lots of folks like the drop in 2 stages, which i believe RRA makes. there is also a fella out there you can send your trigger group to and he will lighten it to either 3 or 4 lbs, whichever you prefer.

stock triggers suck IMO.


It is a stock trigger, heavy long but pretty smooth.

But even shooting on a bench with sandbags the trigger is the primary suspect here?

Edited by ipser, Nov. 21 2009 - 02:40 PM.



#4 OFFLINE   ipser

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 02:39 PM

[Ignore this post]

Edited by ipser, Nov. 21 2009 - 03:15 PM.



#5 OFFLINE   hsracer201

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 03:39 PM

It is a stock trigger, heavy long but pretty smooth.

But even shooting on a bench with sandbags the trigger is the primary suspect here?


IMO, yes. it would at least be a good starting point.

others will be along to offer more insights.

is the upper new or used? is the bore really good and clean?

what kind of scope and rings are you using? if it's a cheap optic (no offense) then it might be that. is the scope mounted on a carry handle?

Edited by hsracer201, Nov. 21 2009 - 03:40 PM.



#6 OFFLINE   ipser

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 03:55 PM

IMO, yes. it would at least be a good starting point.

Just double checking.

is the upper new or used? is the bore really good and clean?

what kind of scope and rings are you using? if it's a cheap optic (no offense) then it might be that. is the scope mounted on a carry handle?

The upper is used but not abused, I think. It was clean.

The scope is one of those cheap little 4x20s (Leapers made in China, I think) that attach to the handle with a screw through the hole. It's tight but obviously not locked on like a traditional rifle scope. (Is it unreasonable to expect that cheap scope to do as well as my Marlin iron sights?)

Edited by ipser, Nov. 21 2009 - 03:56 PM.



#7 OFFLINE   Nwatson99

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 04:09 PM

Smoother trigger pull
Top line optics
Top Shelf ammunition.


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#8 OFFLINE   hsracer201

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 04:14 PM

The scope is one of those cheap little 4x20s (Leapers made in China, I think) that attach to the handle with a screw through the hole. It's tight but obviously not locked on like a traditional rifle scope. (Is it unreasonable to expect that cheap scope to do as well as my Marlin iron sights?)



ding, ding, ding. we probably have a winner.

for one, your scope is crap. (no offense, it's just fact)

for two, i've tried using a mount system like that on my own colt match target h-bar and it never would get 100% rock solid. i ended up taking it off and leaving it alone.

those cheap scopes are made for rimfires bud. you could probably shoot better groups with the peep in the carry handle.


#9 OFFLINE   ipser

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 04:21 PM

ding, ding, ding. we probably have a winner.

for one, your scope is crap. (no offense, it's just fact)

for two, i've tried using a mount system like that on my own colt match target h-bar and it never would get 100% rock solid. i ended up taking it off and leaving it alone.

those cheap scopes are made for rimfires bud. you could probably shoot better groups with the peep in the carry handle.


Good to know. That's probably the easist thing to fix.

On the other hand, it creates a bit of a delimna. If the scope/mount is the culprit then I have to decide whether I want to keep this as a tactical-style rifle or upgrade toward a hunting rifle.

Is there any in-between option that would provide a smallish scope on the handle but with a more solid fit?


#10 OFFLINE   Nwatson99

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 04:25 PM

Good to know. That's probably the easist thing to fix.

On the other hand, it creates a bit of a delimna. If the scope/mount is the culprit then I have to decide whether I want to keep this as a tactical-style rifle or upgrade toward a hunting rifle.

Is there any in-between option that would provide a smallish scope on the handle but with a more solid fit?



Sure are
Here
or
Here if you prefer this type of mount


#11 OFFLINE   hsracer201

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 04:29 PM

Good to know. That's probably the easist thing to fix.

On the other hand, it creates a bit of a delimna. If the scope/mount is the culprit then I have to decide whether I want to keep this as a tactical-style rifle or upgrade toward a hunting rifle.

Is there any in-between option that would provide a smallish scope on the handle but with a more solid fit?



yeah, something like this:

http://www.gunbroker...?Item=146979614

it's designed to fit on the carry handle and snug up tight. it'sa quality rig but it ain't cheap.

i'm not a fan of carry handles. you could always sell just the upper receiver and get one with a flat top and then you could use a standard style scope and mounts.

that, or keep it just as it is and have another AR for tactical/home defense use and another one for hunting purposes. :D


#12 OFFLINE   ipser

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 05:46 PM

Thanks everyone for your help! I'll look into these product suggestions and get to work.


#13 OFFLINE   ipser

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Posted Nov. 21 2009 - 05:50 PM

that, or keep it just as it is and have another AR for tactical/home defense use and another one for hunting purposes.

I do have plenty of traditional hunting rifles, this is my only tactical rifle. So I am very hesitant to compromise that for accuracy. If I can get better accuracy without giving up the tactical style that would be my preference.

I'll also do some benchrest shooting with the iron sights and see how that groups.


#14 OFFLINE   Hillbilly Infidel

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Posted Nov. 23 2009 - 09:56 PM

ding, ding, ding. we probably have a winner.

for one, your scope is crap. (no offense, it's just fact)

for two, i've tried using a mount system like that on my own colt match target h-bar and it never would get 100% rock solid. i ended up taking it off and leaving it alone.

those cheap scopes are made for rimfires bud. you could probably shoot better groups with the peep in the carry handle.


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#15 OFFLINE   Hillbilly Infidel

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Posted Nov. 23 2009 - 10:05 PM

yeah, something like this:

http://www.gunbroker...?Item=146979614

it's designed to fit on the carry handle and snug up tight. it'sa quality rig but it ain't cheap.

i'm not a fan of carry handles. you could always sell just the upper receiver and get one with a flat top and then you could use a standard style scope and mounts.

that, or keep it just as it is and have another AR for tactical/home defense use and another one for hunting purposes. :D


I agree with Stu. I like the flattop uppers, but my BEST ever group was with my Colt Match H-Bar w/carry handle & 4X scope, and the type of mounting system suggested by Stu & MR NWatson99. It was 5 shots (@ 100yds) less than 1/2 MOA and eyes 18 years younger. I strive to this day with better optics and flattops to better that group! Good luck & good shooting.


#16 OFFLINE   side-burn

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Posted Nov. 24 2009 - 06:37 PM

I do have plenty of traditional hunting rifles, this is my only tactical rifle. So I am very hesitant to compromise that for accuracy. If I can get better accuracy without giving up the tactical style that would be my preference.

I'll also do some benchrest shooting with the iron sights and see how that groups.


A tactical rifle need not have an optic that magnifies. You can get an excellent Aimpoint 9000SC that will serve you well. Also, 1.5" at 50 yards for a tactical rifle is A-OK in my book. So you've already achieved that...

Otherwise get a good 1-4x scope and you would do well at 50 yards and you wouldn't loose any 'tactical' advantage :wink:

Sitting on the bench, shooting you need
  • good/great optic (NightForce, Leupold, Burris are all good and represent a decent price range)
  • trigger (I recommend the best - Giessele)
  • good ammo



#17 OFFLINE   Sgtar15

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Posted Nov. 24 2009 - 09:33 PM

Smoother trigger pull
Top line optics
Top Shelf ammunition.


+1 At least get lighter trigger springs. And find some ammo that works well in your rifle.

And, if this is a new rifle to you then it just might be partly you.

No offense, it just takes me a while to REALLY get the best outa a new rifle.


#18 OFFLINE   Sgtar15

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Posted Nov. 24 2009 - 09:34 PM

The scope is one of those cheap little 4x20s (Leapers made in China, I think) that attach to the handle with a screw through the hole.


There is your problem right there.

Handle mounted scopes are WAY to high above the bore line and result in crappy groups. Plus you have a cheap pice of junk.

Again, no offense, I Tapco fuzzed my first AK47


#19 OFFLINE   Sgtar15

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Posted Nov. 24 2009 - 09:37 PM

And AR15 rifles are design more for assult power against fast multiple targets, not neccessarily for accuracy. While they CAN be very accurate, that is not there main goal.

In other words, you can hunt deer with it, but it prefers "other targets"


#20 OFFLINE   glock10mmman

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Posted Nov. 25 2009 - 12:16 AM

Some AR's without any real work to them can be scary accurate. I traded off a Saber 24" that would only shoot 3/4" at 100. IF it dont shoot 1/2" or better, I dont want it.

Ask Pdog1517 about his AR. That sumbitch is scarey accurate. IT was right up there with my custom 223 bolt gun.


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