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Direct Impingement VS. PIston


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#1 OFFLINE   kraut1005

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 06:57 PM

Is gas piston or direct impingement better?
Which manufacturer is best for the gas piston AR's
Thanks!!!

Edited by kraut1005, Jun. 09 2010 - 07:07 PM.



#2 OFFLINE   Alden

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 07:06 PM

Addax is best, of course.


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#3 OFFLINE   kraut1005

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 07:18 PM

Addax is best, of course.

I am looking to purchase a gas piston AR and i need some direction into the best carbine version.


#4 OFFLINE   nitehawk

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 07:20 PM

:welcome: to the Armory :) IMHO go with the ADDAX GPU :thumb: :oh yea:
http://www.adxtactic...ore/pc/home.asp
Sign up with Chris...there is a discount for Armory members. Enjoy the BRD :oh yea:


#5 OFFLINE   kraut1005

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 07:23 PM

[quote name='kraut1005' date='June 9th 2010 6:18 PM' post='1081765']
I am looking to purchase a gas piston AR and i need some direction into the best carbine version.
Does Addax have full weapons available?


#6 OFFLINE   Alden

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 08:49 PM

http://www.adxtactic...ore/pc/home.asp


#7 OFFLINE   The War Wagon

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 09:34 PM

I own a POF-415, but Chris built a custom DI upper for me that is the bees' knees. :cool: I wouldn't hesitate to have him build me a piston upper, either! :thumb:


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#8 OFFLINE   jtrain

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 09:53 PM

I have 5 Piston AR's from 3 different manufacturers.
2 PWS (This uses the same piston system as the ADDAX)
2 Adams Arms
and 1 LMT

I like them all for various reasons. What are you looking to use this rifle for?
I have heard a lot of good things about ADDAX, it is a sound design piston system, you couldn't go wrong with them.


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#9 OFFLINE   hsracer201

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Posted Jun. 09 2010 - 10:38 PM

"Best" is a relative term, sort of. Addax does make awesome GPU's, I own one myself. Does the average person, myself included, need a gas piston upper? My answer is no. DI has been around forever and spare parts are easier to find in a pinch. GPU's run cleaner so to a lot of people that makes them better.

If you have the cash to burn, why not? Just keep in mind how many DI's are out there though. It's not an altogether terrible platform, obviously.


#10 OFFLINE   Addax

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Posted Jun. 10 2010 - 12:27 AM

I am looking to purchase a gas piston AR and i need some direction into the best carbine version.
Does Addax have full weapons available?


We are currently building a few different types AR Piston Uppers (and we also do build some custom configurations) using the PWS Long Stroke system in our uppers.

We are currently getting ready to manufacturer our own in house designed piston system and AR Piston Uppers that utilizes what we call an Enhanced Short Stroke Piston System.

When we get our 07 FFL, we will be offering a complete Addax AR's both Piston and DI (DI mainly will be Special Purpose Rifles, and Precision Rifle configurations).

Edited by Addax, Jun. 10 2010 - 12:58 AM.



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#11 OFFLINE   recon013

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Posted Jun. 10 2010 - 01:14 AM

I am a DI guy.(hey that rhymes) If you are going to do a piston gun, go with Addax. I waiting for their retro fit so I can build my own upper. (hint, hint, hurry up, lets go) I've heard a lot of good stuff about them here. They both have there advantages. The DI is simpler and the piston is cleaner. I will say that if something goes wrong in the field, you won't find many matching piston parts laying around. This is not a likely scenario.


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#12 OFFLINE   Addax

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Posted Jun. 10 2010 - 12:49 PM

I know that some folks are concerned about spare parts when purchasing a piston driven AR.

One thing you should consider that most high quality piston systems are rated to shoot over 30,000 rounds before the need to change parts due to wear and tear. That is a longer lifespan than most AR barrels and bolts on the market.

Of course, it is a good idea to carry some spare parts for the piston system just in case a part does fail.

Yes, sometimes parts do fail, just like in a DI AR, so it is a good idea to keep some spare parts around for your piston system of choice just in case something fails, and you do not want to wait for the mfg. to fix it under their warranty.

In designing the new ZK piston system, we made it simple, and there are only three moving parts. The Piston Rod, The Bolt Carrier, and the The Piston Tube.

We will make these parts available for purchase as spare parts for Addax ZK owners.

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#13 OFFLINE   Proudtexan

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Posted Jun. 10 2010 - 02:51 PM

:welcome: to the armory! Go Addax, or go home!



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#14 OFFLINE   Elmer Fudd

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Posted Jun. 11 2010 - 10:00 AM

personally i would go with the LWRCI piston upper, it is the one with the most experience, and is the first on the American gun market, the short stroke system was originally invented by Paul Leitner-Wise (flame on, my fire retardant suit can take anything up to 25,000 degrees) my first piston upper, a Colt 6721, converted by Paul, it has run flawlessly for 8 years and cleaned only once since then it runs very clean ! currently Paul has come up with his "MOD 1", i have one and wouldn't trade or sell it for a pound of GOLD !! i have one special forces commemorative made by the original LWRC i also have 4 other piston carbines made by LWRCI, they too are very reliable and run clean and cool.

every other company who makes piston uppers has copied or tried to re-invent the piston systems that Paul invented over 10 years ago, ADAX is just another copy cat of a former piston system.

THE ABOVE IS MY OPINION AND IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF ANY PISTON SYSTEM :salute:


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#15 OFFLINE   Addax

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Posted Jun. 11 2010 - 02:48 PM

personally i would go with the LWRCI piston upper, it is the one with the most experience, and is the first on the American gun market, the short stroke system was originally invented by Paul Leitner-Wise (flame on, my fire retardant suit can take anything up to 25,000 degrees) my first piston upper, a Colt 6721, converted by Paul, it has run flawlessly for 8 years and cleaned only once since then it runs very clean ! currently Paul has come up with his "MOD 1", i have one and wouldn't trade or sell it for a pound of GOLD !! i have one special forces commemorative made by the original LWRC i also have 4 other piston carbines made by LWRCI, they too are very reliable and run clean and cool.

every other company who makes piston uppers has copied or tried to re-invent the piston systems that Paul invented over 10 years ago, ADAX is just another copy cat of a former piston system.

THE ABOVE IS MY OPINION AND IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF ANY PISTON SYSTEM :salute:


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The LWRCI design is based on the Soviet Tokarev SVT40-Walther G43 design. Basically it is a variation of that original design that has been re-engineered into a short stroke system, and to work in the AR platform, and it is a good system.

There were piston systems developed for the AR platform by Stoner in the late 60's that was not accepted by the DoD, and I believe the Rhino Short Stroke Piston kit was out during the 80's.

Pretty much most piston systems out on the market are based or have design features based on other piston systems designs, that have been re-engineered to work better, more efficiently etc.

Calling people Copycats is a bit extreme, since this would mean that every AR manufacturer or AR builder is a copycat, no matter if they are making or building DI or Piston AR's.

Thanks,
Chris

Edited by Addax, Jun. 11 2010 - 02:51 PM.



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#16 OFFLINE   Steelborn1

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Posted Jun. 11 2010 - 03:02 PM

I guess there is one in every family(Elmer,we need a black sheep emoticon!). I am very impressed with the long stroke piston system that PWS designed. Chris uses them in his Addax ATAC GPU's. From what I have seen the Long Stroke System should be superior to most. However, I am waiting to see the new Addax ESS as Chris is very proud of it. He is confident enough to make it his marquee system!

BTW, very professional reply to Elmer Chris. Nice work sir! :thumb:


#17 OFFLINE   Delta-3

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Posted Jun. 11 2010 - 07:23 PM

I agree with Steelborn1. I think the PWS long stroke is ( or will be) the front runner in AR piston guns. Perhaps it's because I recently started dabbling in AR's again after 20 years of AK's.
The long stroke works for them & few can argue about an AK's reliability.


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#18 OFFLINE   glock10mmman

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Posted Jun. 11 2010 - 08:13 PM

every other company who makes piston uppers has copied or tried to re-invent the piston systems that Paul invented over 10 years ago, ADAX is just another copy cat of a former piston system.

THE ABOVE IS MY OPINION AND IS NOT AN ENDORSEMENT OF ANY PISTON SYSTEM :salute:


:usa1:


Exactly its your opinion.

If Addax is a copy cat of a piston system, then every single Ar manufacture, including LWRC, is a copy cat of Stoner's design. Matter of fact there were piston guns out there long before LWRC made them.

Calling someone a copy cat is a harsh name bud. Look at 1911's Everyone has made them, some have made some Beautiful guns and made them better than the original Browning design.

While Addax and Black Hole Weaponry did not invent the piston design, neither did LWRC. They made there own versions of a system.

I don't even want to get into the whole Polymer Pistols............Everyone has copied that design from Glock.


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#19 OFFLINE   Elmer Fudd

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Posted Jun. 12 2010 - 10:11 AM

wellllllll !! you all have to admit that Paul Leitner-Wises' introduction of the short stroke piston system is what has kicked off the piston system craze, anyone.., name an AR-15 that preceded the LWRC's design ??

"copy cat".., harsh, that is your opinion.

If Addax is a copy cat of a piston system, then every single Ar manufacture, including LWRC, is a copy cat of Stoner's design. (show proof please, as in a photo !) Matter of fact there were piston guns out there long before LWRC made them. (no kidding ? i never said there wasn't, i am saying there were NO piston AR-15's on the market till Paul L-W started regular production of them.)


I am very UNimpressed with the long stroke piston system, give me the short stroke that set off every manufacturer of piston uppers has/is copying.

I guess there is one in every family(Elmer,we need a black sheep emoticon!).


i like that suggestion, as i have always been some sort of renegade by not running with the herd, forming my own ideas and OPINIONS


#20 OFFLINE   oak1971

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Posted Jun. 12 2010 - 10:31 AM

i like that suggestion, as i have always been some sort of renegade by not running with the herd, forming my own ideas and OPINIONS


A rebel without a cause.....


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