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RDub01

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  1. Thank you. Yep, when this rifle gets a scope on it, I'll definitely be shooting out farther.. And I'll try some Varget and the long bullet. I picked up some 7½s yesterday.
  2. Hello After looking at 55gr and 62gr bullets, it’s time to take a look at the 68-69gr HPBT weight class. The previous workups are here; https://ar15armory.com/forums/topic/193120-new-mp-15-sport-ii-reloading-55gr-fmj/ https://ar15armory.com/forums/topic/193121-new-mp-15-sport-ii-reloading-62gr-fmj/ Again, shooting this new stock S&W M&P 15 Sport II with a 1-9 twist 16” barrel, topped with a Lucid HD-7 Red dot sight. For this exercise the Sierra 69gr HPBT Match bullet will be shot. The Sierra bullet is about .898” long. I know this kind of ammunition needs to be shot with some good glass at distance. I’m looking at some scopes, but haven’t decided which one yet. That’s’ coming up later.. The first thing I do is examine some factory ammo. The two that I grabbed was the Federal 223 Rem 69gr Gold Medal Match loaded with the Sierra bullet, and some Hornady Frontier 223 Rem 68gr HPBT Match, loaded with their 68gr HPBT bullet with a cannalure. This sample has a length of .917”. https://postimg.cc/gallery/vhy10aqi/ https://postimg.cc/gallery/1ts3ch8uy/ I couldn’t find any Sierra bullets locally at the time, so I picked up some Hornady 68gr HPBT without a cannalure. When I measured their length I found them to be roughly .983” long! So it looks like Hornady makes two completely different 68gr HPBT bullets. I would have thought that the two would be the same length, one just has a cannalure and one does not, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. I loaded up a few rounds with the longer non-cannalured bullet and it was painfully obvious that this bullet is much too long for this 1-9 barrel after shooting a few groups.. So, when the Sierra bullets arrived, I loaded up some test ammo, seating the bullets at 2.255”, no crimp. Lake City brass was used throughout. Velocity data was taken with an Oehler 33. Screens centered 15’ from muzzle. All of the targets were shot at 50 yards. All the target circles are 4”. This will be the first time using Varget and 2000-MR in the line-up. I shot an initial group with the Federal ammo at my range behind the house, but made the mistake of shooting after a full day of work around the property. That didn’t work out so well. But an average of five rounds came in at 2601 fps at 82°F. On range day it was cooler, I was well rested and ready to shoot.. The Federal ammo shot much better.. So, after looking at this, two things came to mind. First, there is no doubt that the Sierra 69gr bullet will shoot in this 1-9 barrel. And second, boy have I got some work to do!… The velocity was lower this time as the ambient temp was 30° cooler. Also shot two groups of the Frontier ammo; The slightly longer Hornady bullet didn’t do quite as well.. With both the Fed and Frontier I shot one group, recorded data, and then shot a second group while the barrel was warm. Ok, here is how all the handloads went; Here is all the data I was working off of; [/url Well there is definitely an array of personalities as to how each powder handles this bullet weight out of the 16” barrel. Now that a quality bullet is being used here, a lot of powders are showing potential. The next day I shot a group with 26.4 grs. AA2520 as 26.1 wasn’t showing any pressure signs. It was a bit warmer and the weather was quite different. This group was pretty good, but this one was a bit warm.. Also shot a third group with the Frontier load when it was warmer, to see if velocity or group size would change. No difference either way. I any case it seems the Frontier load is not temperature sensitive. Here is a graph for all of this; Looking forward to see what this rifle could do with some glass on it.. Bear in mind this is all relative to one rifle, one shooter, one place and time, one set of components. Change any one variable and this could all change. Don't accept this as loading data. You must do your own work ups with your rifle.
  3. RDub01

    New M&P 15 SPORT II; Reloading 55gr FMJ

    Thank you For the time being anyway, the rifle's intended purpose is more close in work.. I totally agree the accuracy potential would be revealed with some good glass
  4. Hello Now that I’ve completed the 55gr FMJ project, it’s time to pick on the 62 grainers. A buddy of mine sent me some 62gr green tips to work with. Weighing the bullets I found most to be 62.7-62.9grs., some a little heavier and some a little lighter. Their lengths were around .914”. The gun I’m shooting is a M&P 15 Sport II 16” 1-9 twist. Sight is a Lucid HD-7 red dot. Velocity data was taken with an Oehler 33 chronograph. Screens centered 15’ from muzzle. Target circles are 4” in diameter. Target distance 50 yards. I took two different 62gr. factory loads out to shoot; The 62gr American Eagle FMJ green tip, and the Frontier 62gr FMJ. The American Eagle load was charged with 26.9grs of a flattened ball powder and had a velocity yield of 2937 fps. The Frontier load was charged with 26.6grs of a flattened ball powder and had a velocity yield of 2937 fps. https://postimg.cc/gallery/3ez5ttrqy/ https://postimg.cc/gallery/29kuk8viy/ Both loads shot pretty well. Now I know what I’m trying to duplicate. Made another loading data chart for 60-62 grain bullets; With the exception of AA 2015, the same powders were used. IMR 8208 and the one load of AR COMP were fired off with CCI 400 primers. The rest, CCI 450 primers. Lake City brass was used throughout. Bullets were seated just through the cannalure and crimped in with a Lee Factory Crimp die. Loaded up the test ammo and went to the range. Well.. Every powder except H-335 produced at least one good or descent group. This rifle will shoot these 62 grain bullets quite well. TAC really came through and AA2460 is the closest factory duplication load. I didn’t have enough bullets for a complete ladder with all eleven powders. One, would have to be loaded with only five. So AR COMP drew the short straw. Here is a graph; Well that was very interesting. Bear in mind this is all relative to one rifle, one shooter, one place and time, one set of components. Change any one variable and this could all change. Don't accept this as loading data. You must do your own work ups with your rifle. Getting ready to look at 68-69gr bullets next...
  5. Hello This was posted two other sites, but thought you guys might find it interesting if you hadn't seen it.. Well, I went and did it.. Picked up a S&W M&P 15 Sport II in 5.56 NATO 16” 1-9” twist barrel. I really thought I could live without one but.. Bud’s Gun Shop had a deal I couldn’t pass up. Plus, being a vet I get another 50 dollar rebate. Installed a Lucid HD-7 2- Minute red dot sight on it. This is one sweet shooting rifle. Naturally I gathered some factory ammo and took it out for a spin and see how it does. I’ll start working with 55gr projectiles first. What I found locally was some Frontier 55gr FMJ, and American Eagle 55gr FMJ. I had to order the IMI ammo on-line. The first thing I do with factory ammo is pull at least one down and examine it. If you want to see more details I have it all documented here; https://postimg.cc/gallery/2c3rect8a/[/url] https://postimg.cc/gallery/1o9ly103e/[/url] https://postimg.cc/gallery/2jdpogbwa/[/url] The bottom line is; American Eagle had a 27.6gr charge and shot 3044 and 3061 fps Frontier had a 27.4gr charge and shot 3010 and 3012 fps IMI had a 27.0gr charge and shot 3018 fps So… Being the hand loader I am, the first thing that come to mind is, how do I duplicate these? How ‘bout that, another project.. I stay current on most of the major data sources so went through all the 55gr data and made a reference chart. I do this with a lot of stuff I work with. So from this I decided on what the work up ladders were going to look like. Just recently finished working with a 7.62 NATO rifle so the powders that I used for that project were appropriate for the 5.56 as well.. Decided on three group ladders working up to, or just shy of the highest listed charge, and watching for pressure signs as it progresses. Picked up a thousand 55gr FMJ bullets from a major bullet source, and immediately noticed that they were not all the same bullet.. The cannalures were in different places, the ogives were different and weights varied. Great… It appears there are three maybe four different styles in there. My buddies tell me this is quite common with these ‘deals’.. Well I sorted through these and segregated them by cannalure location and size, ogive shape and weight the best I could. So each fifteen rounds representing each powder is loaded with close to the same bullet as possible. I discovered a coffee can full of once fired LC brass, so that worked out.. Cleaned them up with my Frankford SS pin tumbler. Sized with a Redding SB sizer, trimmed with the World’s Fastest Trimmer, crimped in the cannalures with a LEE Factory Crimp die. The powders I chose to work with are; AA2015, AR COMP, AA2230, IMR 8208, AA 2460, H-335, TAC , 748, BL-C(2), W846, AA2520, and CFE223. All the loads were weighed individually by hand. Primers used for AA2015, AR COMP and IMR 8208 were Rem 6½. The rest, CCI 450. (Should have used the 7½s instead) So off the range.. Day one; The 50 yard target range seemed the best distance to shoot groups with the red dot sight. Targets are 4” in diameter. Velocity data taken with an Oehler model 33. Screens centered 15' from muzzle. Turns out my Oehler controller has developed an ultra-sensitivity issue. The higher charged loads were reading incorrectly. The targets that say 'No Data' were the ones effected. So after going back and forth with Mr. Oehler, he sent me a brand new controller, never before sold. So last time out I tried it out and it worked flawlessly. Back in business again.. Here is day two; Shot these loads again after the new controller arrived.. Well, almost every powder managed to shoot some nice groups somewhere along the line.. H-335 and AA 2520 really get with the program with respect to velocity.. The high end loads were warm, but not terrible. The loads in the middle would be a max load in this rifle. Day 2 target #17; The Lucid HD-7 sight has a auto-off feature that, in two hours of continuous operation, it will shut itself off. Well I was just squeezing off the last shot, and just when the firing pin was being engaged, the sight went off, so I shot without a red dot. Had this not happened I believe this would have been a excellent group.. Have to re-shoot it sometime. The factory loads all shoot in excess of 3000 fps and are loaded with 27.0 – 27.6grs of a ball propellant. It would appear that the IMI ammo uses some very similar to AA 2520. AR COMP; the order got switched. The starting load, 24.0grs, is on the far right of the three targets.. With the exception of H-335 and AA 2520 on the high end, no excessive pressure signs were noted. I expected a little more out of CFE223.. Here is a graph to see all the velocities from the air.. At the bottom you can see the factory loads velocities and charge weights compared to the hand loads. So that was interesting.. I hope to do this again with 62gr bullets.. Well see. Bear in mind this is all relative to one rifle, one shooter, one place and time, one set of components. Change any one variable and this could all change. Don't accept this as loading data. You must do your own work ups with your rifle.
  6. Hello and welcome to the 10mm communtiy I've run into this also with P.P. and other powders as well. I just attributed it to two possibilities after playing around with different primers and seating depth. One, is the powder doesn't like to burn as efficiently at that higher pressure as it would with a lower charge. PP has not impressed me as a powder to use for 100% loads... More like 85-90% The other thing is that with the increased powder charge you just ran out of barrel to burn all the powder. There is probably a good reason why Alliant lists 9.3grs with a 180gr bullet. The load my G20-SF likes very much is 9.0 of PP with a Hornady 180 FMJ. Makes for a good solid all-around load. After 9.0grs I run into the same phenomenon. My barrel is only 4.6".
  7. Hey all.. Did some more shooting and workups with the G20.. http://www.handloadersbench.com/forum17/38957.html
  8. Yes Bb those are pull down weights. I posted these before I realized there are sites that dedicate to doing pull downs. http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/31847-new-glock-20sf-armscor-180gr-fmj-report.html http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/31846-new-glock-20sf-win-175gr-st-report.html http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/32000-glock-20sf-american-eagle-180grfmj-report.html http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/32001-glock-20sf-buffalo-bore-180grjhc.html http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/32022-underwood-10mm-180grtmj-report.html#post270074 http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/32440-10mm-remington-umc-180gr-fmj-report.html http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/34001-10mm-hsm-200gr-fmj.html http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/hpr-180-grain-jhp/
  9. I think you'll find it to your liking.. Not wimpy at all. I've seen it on shelves in my neck of the woods recently.
  10. RDub01

    Leading in the 10MM

    Hey Peashooter Here is a reply. I can't seem to post a picture here. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8_8nEle_m4EWGZLTVJhamdKZU0/edit?usp=sharing
  11. Yes... The BB load did not produce any smileys in my factory G20, but the Underwood load did.. Check this out.. http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/32001-glock-20sf-buffalo-bore-180grjhc.html http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/32022-underwood-10mm-180grtmj-report.html#post270074
  12. Hello Report here; http://www.handgunforum.net/range-report/34001-10mm-hsm-200gr-fmj.html
  13. Thanks. I enjoyed puting it together.
  14. No, I don't have any AutoComp.. I've seen it at Sportman's. But Silhouette is the same thing as Winchester's 'Winchester Action Pistol' or WAP. Edtited; Mistaken The only source I could find for AutoComp data is the IMR website, which lists 7.7grs as max for a 180gr bullet. The IMR website lists 8.4grs of WAP as max with a 180gr bullet. Ramshot lists 8.4grs as max with Silhouette.. So, if IMR lists 7.7 for one and 8.4 for the other.. It would seem there is some difference. However... In Hornady's #8 manual, their .40 S&W data for 155gr lists Silhouette and AutoComp the same.. Until someone actually tests AutoComp it's still an unkown..
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