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Anyone running nightvision?

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Anyone using nv? What kind? Where do you mount it, rifle, front or behind optic, or on head? Ive seen a few running it in front, but a few running it behind, to me behind makes more sense.

 

Basically a buddy/gun nut(with waaayyyy deeper pockets than mine) is letting my play with his NV. The optic in question is a pvs 14. I dont have a rail on my m4 yet, but playing around i moved the eotech up as far as possible and took the magpul rear sight off and put the nv in its place. While it was cool as crap, i dont like not having my back up. My 20" i do have a rail and it fits but sits a little to high(mount is height for lower 1/3) and strikefire is absolute height. Howecer with pvs in front of the strikefire, it seemed to put the dot off zero when looking through. I did read elsewhere someone had a problem shooting that way. I havent shot, i just tried cowitnessing since theres no magnifcation.(maybe 1.25)Anyway can someone give me the lowdown on nv? Sadly i never got to that point in trainging so i need help from the armory brothers who have.

 

I have played around, head mount, which goes on left eye, and still looking through eotech with right. Now i have found i get the same problem as i do when i try covering the objective lens and using the BAC. The dot actually moves to a different spot then where im aiming. I have not tested this shooting, i test by placing weapon on stable spot and putting my hand in front or using flip cap(pending optic) and covering and uncovering objective without moving weapon.

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YES, I am running NVGs ANVIS 6 (dual tubes).

 

NVGs can be run a few different ways depending on what you want to do with them. Run and gun close up stuff like that it is best to run the goggle on your noggin with a IR laser/illuminator on the gun. Military grade IR lasers are regulated by the FDA as they can cause retinal burns well over a mile away and unlike visable lasers your body does not see them so natural defenses like contraction of the pupil and closing the eyelids wont protect the person. There are now some shorter range lasers up to 50 yards that are available for civilian purchase. IR illuminators can be had by civilians though they are not checp. By mounting the tube and sight (laser) sepratally you can fire from a variety of different positions and maintain the ability to quickly turn you head to ID threat or shoot/no shoot targets.

 

 

 

Mounted pros and cons.

 

If you are looking to do something like hunting at long ranges night you will need to mount the goggle infront of the scope (closer to the muzzle). Get ready for some serious $$ for one of these set ups. The tube must mount EXACTALLY the same every time for any range over about 20 feet. Many people think you look through goggles like you look through a scope and it just does not work that way. You look into them like you look into a video camera. Without a percise repeatable mount you make have the cross hairs on target but the goggle is not aligned with the barrel any more. You can see where this would not be reliable. You will also need to get an IR illuminator as most of the ones in goggles are only good for 10-15 meters.

 

If you want to do some night hunting for hogs or yotes or something like that a single tube mounted behind something like a aimpoint or eotech will do just fine. This allows you to remove it during the day and wont mess with your zero because the tube sees the dot in the sight rather than the sight seeing the picture in the tube. This is going to be the lest expensive way to to it and on a 75% or more illum night you should be able to get off human shots 75 to 100 yards on a yote sized target. Adding a visable red laser (green is hard to see under NVGs at distance) you can increase that range several times but remimber that a laser zero is only percise at one range. other than that range you are going to have differences in elevation and windage.

 

Hope this helps.

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That actually helps alot. This came with the standard gooseneck mount, along with head mount. Id love to keep it behind the eotech but because of the attachment screw it wont fit over the magpul sight. Once i choke up the money for kac rails ill probably just move the eotech forward amd mount the nv behind it. This mount has the feature where you cant overtighten it. So i could put this on my 20in sinc i have rails. Your saying push the nv as far forward as possible?

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That actually helps alot. This came with the standard gooseneck mount, along with head mount. Id love to keep it behind the eotech but because of the attachment screw it wont fit over the magpul sight. Once i choke up the money for kac rails ill probably just move the eotech forward amd mount the nv behind it. This mount has the feature where you cant overtighten it. So i could put this on my 20in sinc i have rails. Your saying push the nv as far forward as possible?

Dont push the NV any farther forward than you have to. Remimber like a scope, it has eye relief. Also the farther forward you push it, the less of the tube you are going to be able to see. At very best you only get a 40 degree FOV through goggles. The standard mount is desinged to work with the USGI popsicle style rear buis. Ideally your eye will need to be less than 2 inches from the eyepiece lens. If you change the mounts out with a aftermarket mount you will have less interference with your rear BUIS. I would consider a rear BUIS with a QD mount and you just take it off and put the tube on after all, you are not going to run BUIS with goggles anyway. You are also going to need to try to keep the dot on the upper unless you have a full length rail. the KAC rails are good but they are not repeatable when you take them off to clean under them. It can knock your zero off on you sight. This can also be a issue with the laser however you can simply borescope the laser against the dot when you put your rails back on.

 

Another option for a laser is the ECLAD (I think) shroud for the EOTech. This takes the laser/illuminator off of the forward rail and mounts it on the shroud on left shroud of the EOTech. If you are a left though the extra bulk might give you some problems.

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I can tell you from lots of experience with night vision, specifically the PVS 14, the best way to mount it is on the head. Otherwise, unless you are looking down your rifle sights, you don't have night vision. Get a good infrared laser illuminator for the rifle, don't try to use the sights with NVGs. If the laser is zeroed, you simply place the but of your weapon in the center of your chest, line up the laser, and pull the trigger.

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Ill see what i can do about a laser. I guess ill have to play with it more on my head. If it was using my right eye itd be perfect. I tried using it covering left, keeping eotech on normal brightness amd using my right eye to aim as normal and letting my brain put the images together but it still moves the reticle off where im really aiming. Any advice to fix this?

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(please remove this - it was a duplicate post)

Edited by Ronald H Levine

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I normally read and post in our 10mm Talk Forums, but my night vision search here brought me to see this. For training in traveling light and fast, I have took on a personal challenge of becoming proficient with pistols out to two hundred yards. Few can do this and most probably shouldn't even try, but there are strong indicators that I will be successful.

 

A great force multiplier would be something like this: ATN FIITS14 w/4th Gen. IIT Fusion Image Intensification.

 

But, wow! It is expensive! If I were to buy it, it would be pricey, so I would want to know if the advantages are there and will best fit my needs and work for me.

 

I looked at actual pictures comparing generations and saw that there is a much greater clarity with this being fourth generation and that is what might make it work with my iron night sights on a pistol, but I have no experience with this device.

 

Should I reach my goal of handgun proficiency sufficient to dump the battle rifle and that heavier ammunition out of my backpack, then something like this just might work with iron sights and give me a great number of other advantages.

 

I do like the idea of the infrared lasers except my preference is using no illumination and no infrared to be totally passive for stealth and I don't rule lasers out totally and particularly for lessor equipment if necessary for my budget, but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the more advanced night vision goggles to know if they would be functional with iron sights on pistols at full reach and if there would be a focus issue.

 

From reading what is posted, I'm guessing they might work with the holographic dot sights on a pistol which is possible for me yet very much not my preference and the iron sights are and I have concerns that the glass lenses not being fused quartz will not have transparency to the longer wavelength of thermal imaging which is too great of an advantage to lose.

 

Has anyone here actually used one or similar technologies? Will it focus on the handgun sights at arms length and the target at distance at the same time? Will it be better or worse with a holographic dot type sight on a handgun instead of iron sights? Would the glass lenses of that sort of optical handgun sight be transparent to heat radiation or will lenses need to be fused quartz? Can this ATN FIITS14 w/4th Gen. be used with a rifle scope? Can it be used with a telescope or how about a reflector type telescope with it's eyepiece lenses replaced with fused quarts lenses?

 

At the high price for this, I'm looking to justify purchasing with it having multiple uses of sufficient value to rank it in priority as I will not be able to buy a lot of things with this much money going to this item.

 

But, I do like that it's about one and a half pounds added to my backpacking gear would be a great force multiplier even compared to long lists of things too heavy to carry that would slow me down and mitigate any advantages. It's a diminishing returns sort of thing with weight which must be considered critically because traveling light and fast is far superior to getting killed by being weighted down with a lot of great stuff.

 

Ronald H Levine :)

 

Be prepared, be very prepared

 

 

 

I can tell you from lots of experience with night vision, specifically the PVS 14, the best way to mount it is on the head. Otherwise, unless you are looking down your rifle sights, you don't have night vision. Get a good infrared laser illuminator for the rifle, don't try to use the sights with NVGs. If the laser is zeroed, you simply place the but of your weapon in the center of your chest, line up the laser, and pull the trigger.

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I can tell you from lots of experience with night vision, specifically the PVS 14, the best way to mount it is on the head. Otherwise, unless you are looking down your rifle sights, you don't have night vision. Get a good infrared laser illuminator for the rifle, don't try to use the sights with NVGs. If the laser is zeroed, you simply place the but of your weapon in the center of your chest, line up the laser, and pull the trigger.

 

 

That is how I do it. Keep the NV on your head so you don't have to point your weapon at every thing you want to look at. IR lasers can be found they're just expensive. If you want to play the NV game your going to have to spend some money. Here's my set up. It's kind of hard to see.

100_0496.jpg

 

Ronald H. Levine- ATN makes junk. They were kicked off the Night Vision message board for not standing behind their junk. Don't beleive what you see in the comparison pictures they post, either. A lot of those are fake. They used to use a picture of a guy riding a jetski but the guy had sun glasses on. How many people ride jetski's at night while wearing sun glasses. Here is a comparison between gen 2 plus and gen 3 of my plow truck.

 

Gen 2 plus

100_0302.jpg

 

Gen 3

100_0298.jpg

Also, I think you would have focus issues trying to use pistol sites. I tried to focus on the night sites of my Kimber once just to see if it was doable and had to adjust to the sites themselves, which made the target out of focus. You would do better with an IR laser.

 

I know you said you don't want any illumination but the only people who can see IR are those with NV so they are already on the same level as you. IF they have the ability to shoot at you, you would at least be able to shoot back with the laser.

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Ron,

 

Because I am typing on an iPad I'll need to cut some specifics but the basic answer to your question is no.

 

Being a dual tube you are going to be limited to wearing it on your head. If you try to mount it on the rifle you would have to mild a custom mount and you'll run into the same problems as listed above concerning mounting it. Holographic sites are not going to work with the thermal side of the tubes because they are not going to give off the proper amount of heat for the thermal side to see. Even if your sight did, when superimposed against you targets heat signature you won't see the dot compared to the target.

 

Now as far as using the IR side with sights the problem you will run into is focus. Anything under about 8-10 feet is going to require you to adjust the tube focus in to the sites causing you to loose focus on the target. To add most night sights are a shade of green. NVGs don't pick up green light very well. In fact most aircrews use green filters in flashlights in the cockpit for this reason.

 

One more thing, don't get sold on the whole "gen IV" goggle thing. The major difference between gen III and IV is that there are current limiters inn the tube that will lower power supplied to the cathode tube to prevent damage when looking into a bright light or when exposed to flares or the such rather than completely shut down like older generations. The resolution of gen III and IV is the same. The military does not even recognize "GEN IV". It is more revered to as a GEN III+ because there is no difference between the picture in the tube.

 

One other thing to keep in mind is that with dual tubes, one good smack and you knock your comlumization off. Basically this means that the tubes don't look at the same place any more. You may have seen this with cheap binoculars before. Don't get me wrong dual tubes is the way to go but it is the downside of them is that they can work great functionally but if they don't point the same place it can get you killed. The Army actually makes adjustments on the every 6 months for dual tube goggles.

 

One possible answer for you is a pistol mounted IR laser. Stream light makes one that is now issue for the M9A1 pistol. Light, IR, and visible laser in a package just slightly larger than the TLR-2 package.

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Thanks! Big money for me. Big decision. I don't want to make a poor choice. I'll take my time and research and ask questions of those who use such expensive equipment. The thermal imaging seems to be a great advantage over just night vision. I have the poor mans version which gives no image at all, but does have some usefulness with heat detection. Interestingly, it does have both visible and infrared lasers cheaper than just an infrared laser. The model I have must be a few years older, because I don't see it among these which I present for people to get the idea.

 

I started considering the night vision advantages again after listening to a radio program featuring a law enforcement helicopter pilot who tells how much more capability he has with night vision goggles including safe landings.

 

I remember the first I heard of night vision goggles was long ago and they cost $37,000 when that was a lot of money. It was first generation and now we can buy the same for a tiny fraction of that. Cell phones go down in price that many are free with a service package. Mass production and surface mount devices make electronics improve fast and go down in price. Maybe I should wait a little, if I'm not finding a best product now. They keep getting smaller and more capable and lower in price.

 

Ron, ...

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Another possibility is to use a tiny video monitor in glasses and have that connected by a cable to the output of a camera on the firearm which could be of various sorts from ordinary to night vision or thermal imaging. Advantages would seem to be that the point of aim would be in the center of the view and it would allow a lot of search and even defensive firing from behind cover.

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Another possibility is to use a tiny video monitor in glasses and have that connected by a cable to the output of a camera on the firearm which could be of various sorts from ordinary to night vision or thermal imaging. Advantages would seem to be that the point of aim would be in the center of the view and it would allow a lot of search and even defensive firing from behind cover.

Again what you run into is unless it mounts up exactally perfectly the same every time your shot will be off.

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