Jump to content
hubel458

12ga.10ga,8ga,4ga FH; 585HE/700HE; Big Bores--

Recommended Posts

I'm visiting here to talk about the 12ga From Hell and

other developements it has led to.Nice site you folks have.

I'm with a group of experimenters passing on the years of

info and pictures to all gun nuts around the net, about

12ga From Hell and other big bores. We have posted some

round the net about our many ideas we have implemented for

12ga,10ga,8ga,4ga,28ga,20ga,16ga, and my 585HE/700HE wildcats.

 

The idea for the 12ga FH, and the first gun built for it,

was Rob Garnicks on the AR Forums. In the first picture,

a heavy duty Borchardt falling block. He has gotten

1000 gr to 3000 fps in this, a high pressure action.

 

Then I and others joined in and set up a big variety

of guns for the case. The case, a brass case 3.85" long,

made from BMG brass expanded out with straight sides,

to take 12ga .729" dia slugs and a 12ga size rim added on.

Also we get turned brass cases from Rocky Mtn Cart of that

length and shorter. Many guys used 3.5" cases, as standard

reamers are available, and 12ga 3.5" guns are available,

so that they could shoot 3.5" plastic also. Our 3.85" chamber

and 3.5" will shoot any of the shorter cases.

In our work we found ways to get over a third more velocity

in shorter plastic and brass cases using slower powders

than regular fast shotgun powders. We reloaded fast

rifle powder, IMR 4759, IMR 4227, in larger amounts

and got 600gr hard lead slugs over 1800 fps in 24" barrels,

and were lab tested to be at or under magnum shotgun

pressures that are used in factory 3.5" loads.

 

 

More pictures, the 2nd showing long brass 12ga FH case with

regular 12ga case. Other 12ga FH guns are next,3rd Nef Ultra

heavy barrel with length added, 4th Nef 8ga made by boring

out heavy barrel 10ga, 5th FBW falling block,my 585HE belted

case.The FBW has a 20ga 3.5" extra barrel also.

.And we also worked with 8ga,4ga, in falling blocks, 20ga,16ga

in break actions, and my wildcat 585HE,700HE in various actions.

 

6th picture is our big cartridges from 2 bore on down, in

order-2bore- 4ga- 8ga- 10ga- 12ga FH- 700HE--700H 3.25- 30-06..

7th picture is 4bore falling block we built on our design.

Our 4bore is 1 inch bore.We also helped in getting the barrel

threads larger in the new large MRC PH bolt action to fit our

cases like the 700H 3.25" shown in 8th picture in MRC.

 

9th picture is an 8bore bolt gun a guy on another forum built

from scratch.Last is Savage 210 that Bret in MN set up with

heavy barrel and a recoil reducer put into the hollow stock.

Shown with boot off so you can see the build. He has gotten

saboted 500gr slugs over 3000 in this.We will post a bunch

more info and we welcome your ideas and help. And we'll give

all the help we can to folks ..Ed Hubel

 

2430DSC00694.JPG

1212.jpg

neflb.jpg

8inef.jpg

fbw1pc.jpg

big06.jpg

4done.jpg

ph700gun.jpg

8bolt2.jpg

bret.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please dont take this wrong but WHY?? What are you using these shoulder busters for??

 

 

O yea welcome to the site

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First for fun, make big holes, easy to see.

And knowledge as the research is a great hobby.

Second to make inexpensive stopping guns,

and third we have helped to beef up plastic and brass

case loads for regular guns, to make better ballistics

and power for the millions of shotgun only big game hunters.

 

Videos Youtube---- blowing up 6gal pail of water ---"Grandpa's Cannon"

"Grandpa's First Shot" ----12ga FH -- 610gr HP at 2800-3000.

 

We get asked about legality and whether these big cartridges

are DDs. First of all; all shotgun calibers over 50cal are exempt from

being classified as DDs under Title 18 GCA Section 921....

And it doesn't matter what exciting or promo name we call them,

the barrels are still marked for gauge. They can be called 12ga 3 Inch

Super Magnum, 12ga Goose Magnum, 12ga From hell, 12ga 3.5 Express,

12ga Hammerhead, etc, they still are a 12ga case of some length.

And length doesn't matter as long as shorter cases, with straight

sides, and same 12ga(or whatever gauge)base size fit and fire in

longer chambers. IE; 2.5, 2.75, and 3" firing in 3.5", and all of these

firing in our 3.85" longer chamber. IE; you can't take 37mm cannon

shell and neck it to 12ga and have an automatically exempt 12ga

cartridge, as other shorter 12 gauges would not fit/fire in chamber,

and you'd have to get it exempt as sporting. How-

Under the same Section any other over 50cal non-shotgun

cartridge can be classified as Exempt For Sporting Use by

applying for the exemption, like I have done for my cases,and many

others(JDJ-AHR-Etc) have done, as well as cases already sporting

from the old days. Now as for hunting rules in shotgun areas,

game depts may say that you can't use long range spitzer bullets

but must use traditional blunt slugs, for safety. Hunting rules are

varied all over the place.

 

More history of firsts, in our 12ga FH and big bore work.

 

The first gun of mine to have this case was

my Savage 210 in first picture with a regular style

heavy stock. Later changed to thumbhole stock.

I changed barrel to heavy bull barrel and

chambered it for the 12ga FH 3.85" long case.

 

Second picture is the first NEF 12ga Ultra that we put

the first 12ga fH case in. I only had to lengthen chamber.

The same gun now has long barrel and thumbhole stock.

 

Third picture is first NEF 10ga heavy barrel that we put

the 10ga FH in. Gun came with long 30" heavy barrel.

 

Fourth picture is the first 8ga test gun we built using the

super strong 8ga kiln cases with the belt step swaged

down. It is an Enfield that we reamed out to take the

case, like the 12ga Mauser 12ga conversions were done.

And we added extra rear bolt lugs for strength.

 

Fifth picture is the 1st gun my 585HE was put in.

It is an Enfield and gets 750gr bullet 2700 fps.

 

redone.jpg

 

nef.jpg

 

10gafhbg.jpg

 

8en.jpg

 

585enth.jpg

 

 

And in the vein of old time gun actions, of which are various falling

blocks, we like them also for the hairy big bores, like the 8bore and

4bore ones we made over the years, that are pictured above.

Following are 3 pictures of various parts and processes of making the

action, using easy to get small parts, lever, trigger, hammer, etc,

and the action block, breach block from steel blocks in 1st pic.

 

Last 2 pictures are the FBW brand falling blocks, one which is the

Model L that we adapted to the one piece stock and the other is the

smaller Model S with regular two piece stock. Both are set up with

my 585HE. I can run full pressure in the 585.

 

The Model L, I can switch to a 20ga barrel, 600NE barrel,

and my 700HE using moderate loads. Last pic is Model L with

thumb hole stock, and my 585HE case in the action..Ed

 

stbl.jpg

 

emptyact.jpg

 

brchside.jpg

 

fbw2pc.jpg

 

fbw1pc.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now some info on cases and slugs

The 50 BMG brass can be made into some real

great cartridges, our 12ga FH, shown first, showing

cases with rim turned off and threaded; and the 12ga rim

pieces to be screwed on, with finished cases shown.

And 2nd making my 700HE showing original BMG case,

case with belt only, and then expanded out to 700cal.

This makes a super strong big bore case, as I have

fired some 25 times and case is still good.And

it in my big Vulcan bolt gun gets a 1000gr to 3200.

 

3rd picture shows our 4bore/ga case with slugs, and

the 20mm case we make them from. They match the 4bore

turned cases that are used in the Ken Owen doubles.

4th the Rocky Mtn Cartridge, 12ga turned 3.5" cases

with variety of slugs and sabots.In picture first loaded

one is BPI sabot, then 730gr Dixie, then 600gr Dixie,

then RG Henson's solid nose and his hollowpoint.

RMC can make cases any length and any gauge.

5th shows a 12ga FH and 10ga FH we made using steel

basecups taken from 12 and 10 ga cases. We turned down

bases a few thousands of the original brass cases

and epoxied the bases. Used BMG case s for 12ga and

50cal Russian for 10ga.This research came from a

another forum poster, like over half of what we do.Ed

 

sht.jpg

 

process.jpg

 

naval.jpg

 

rmcc.jpg

 

10gafhb.jpg

 

More pictures of 12ga slugs and saboted slugs.

1st The US-S sabot/slug, with the green locked on base,

along with others.The US-S slug is nearly as accurate

in smoothbores, for which it is made, as sabots are

in rifled. those pictured are heavier than most other

brands of saboted slugs.

 

2nd a Jacketed 730gr by RG Henson and a hard,heat treated

600gr by Dixie Slugs in FL, both full bore slugs,

3rd a BPI sabot with hardcast 440gr, .504"

diameter slug. BPIs were intended to use .500" bullets

used in 500S&W, the little larger ones we use seem

little more accurate.Makes tighter fit in rifled barrels.

4th other sabots we tested , 5th brass turned slugs

and there are many other slugs/sabots we'll show..Ed

 

 

usslug.jpg

 

12h.jpg

 

bpi504.jpg

 

sab.jpg

 

sp.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite a few have wanted doubles in our 12GA long case.

Rob is doing one on a big 10ga Zabala double,with Greener

crossbolt lock. He is replacing 10ga barrels with heavy

12ga rifled barrels, mono-blocked into the 10ga breaches

by threading them into the breach sections.

First,2nd,3rd pictures. He is now building and getting

barrel ribs done and the gun regulated.

 

4th picture is my 700HE in a Vulcan bolt action.

5th is the 6gal water pail from the Youtube video, atomizing.

The pail was heavy plastic, full and sealed tight.

That was 12ga 600gr hollow point slug about 3000 fps.

 

 

DSC_0285.JPG

 

DSC_0362.JPG

 

DSC_0286.JPG

 

helr.jpg

 

Shot%203.jpg

 

CASES-1st is comparison of 12ga FH brass cases, with ours on the

left we made using bmg brass, and 3 on the right that

are of a few we found already done in 12ga size, that is

as long as ours.RMC makes them long as ours and any length needed.

2nd is our long case next to short one.You can see how much

thicker and stronger our case is.

 

3rd is a slug made for rifled, for use in 12ga wadcup, and it

being 16ga size works in our 16ga FH case also, as shown.

4th shows 20ga RMC cases and dies we have found for them.

 

 

5th shows 1500gr 4bore slugs a guy cast for me and cases.

These are hollowbase, as our 4 and 8 gauges on the falling

blocks, are smoothbore. Top loads with these 25-2700.Ed

 

 

pc.jpg

 

12ss.jpg

 

gregsl.jpg

 

20dies.jpg

 

zacslug.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quite a few have wanted doubles in our 12GA long case.

Rob is doing one on a big 10ga Zabala double,with Greener

crossbolt lock. He is replacing 10ga barrels with heavy

12ga rifled barrels, mono-blocked into the 10ga breaches

by threading them into the breach sections.

First,2nd,3rd pictures. He is now building and getting

barrel ribs done and the gun regulated.

 

4th picture is my 700HE in a Vulcan bolt action.

5th is the 6gal water pail from the Youtube video, atomizing.

The pail was heavy plastic, full and sealed tight.

That was 12ga 600gr hollow point slug about 3000 fps.

 

 

DSC_0285.JPG

 

DSC_0362.JPG

 

DSC_0286.JPG

 

helr.jpg

 

Shot%203.jpg

 

CASES-1st is comparison of 12ga FH brass cases, with ours on the

left we made using bmg brass, and 3 on the right that

are of a few we found already done in 12ga size, that is

as long as ours.RMC makes them long as ours and any length needed.

2nd is our long case next to short one.You can see how much

thicker and stronger our case is.

 

3rd is a slug made for rifled, for use in 12ga wadcup, and it

being 16ga size works in our 16ga FH case also, as shown.

4th shows 20ga RMC cases and dies we have found for them.

 

 

5th shows 1500gr 4bore slugs a guy cast for me and cases.

These are hollowbase, as our 4 and 8 gauges on the falling

blocks, are smoothbore. Top loads with these 25-2700.Ed

 

 

pc.jpg

 

12ss.jpg

 

gregsl.jpg

 

20dies.jpg

 

zacslug.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember seeing this on SGW a few years ago. Amazing stuff, and you guys have serious balls shooting a home-grown monster like that.

 

How about some pictures of game animals taken with these big bores?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are just shotguns hopped up, and other cases the ATF has

given sporting designations.

 

Some more gun info. Here is picture of a nice, large diameter

action a fellow built, for big bore use.Nice beautiful machine

work, He put a 700 short case in it. He called it 700WTF.

It would do 12ga, 16ga, 20 ga, etc.

 

Second is the 8 bore we just made on falling block. It is

chambered for now for the 8ga 3.3" heavy duty plastic

case that we use. That we get by swaging the belt down on

the new 8ga kiln cases, that BPI and Precision Reloading sell.

The chamber fires old original 8ga cases also, but a regular

kiln load not swaged, won't chamber, a safety factor for guns not

as strong as the falling block. Guys in the UK gave me the idea

of swaging down the belt on kiln cases, as they did it

to get cases for their old 8ga doubles.

 

Third is the Savage 210 we put a 700 cal barrel in and made it

a 700NE. The 700 NE has same rim diameter as 12ga, but a

smaller base, ,020" smaller, Handles the loads fine, as its

factory loads are the same as our top loads in the Savage

with RMC 3.5 brass cases. Before that I had my 700H 3.25"

belted case in it. Worked great.

 

4th- we made a 28ga FH, a brass case 3.25" long that

RMC made for us. The chamber still fits and fires shorter

28ga plastic cases.Here is one in picture with a 505 Gibbs to show

the size and potential. I put first one in a Mossy 695 bolt gun

with a heavy rifled barrel. The 28ga rifled is same groove

diameter as the 550 magnum, so same diameter slugs work.

 

5th are couple of our 12ga FH cases guys shortened for

short actions, less recoil. Left are 2 inches,right 2.25"

and some have shortened them to 2.5" for use in

guns that will feed loaded 3" plastic. The 3" loaded plastic

and 2.5" brass with slug are about 2.7" overall..

If you folks have questions we'll help if we can.Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

jaction.jpg

 

8gafb.jpg

 

matt700.jpg

 

28fhg.jpg

 

2inch12.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What we are doing in getting more power from shotgun calibers

isn't super new or completely novel, most just

modernizing and improving older ideas..

 

In the early days; in my Greener's book he states that

gun with a rifled choke section of the barrel, called

12ga paradox shotgun/rifles, with slugs, heavier powder

charges than shot loads, could hold what amounted to

about 5 inch pattern at 100 yds.

 

And still had over 1800 ft lbs energy at 100yds.

And that is with guns with lighter, thinner barrels

than we have today, so our work is a good extension

of what the early big bore guys did.

 

And then 4bore for guys liking a big challenge, 4th picture.

Thanks to rattler on 24hr forum for the first 4 pics.

 

 

IMG_1844.jpg

 

IMG_1845.jpg

 

IMG_1844.jpg

 

IMG_1846.jpg

 

 

Continuing-Many have success with all kinds of high-power slug designs and

with extra power, have pushed the reliable range of 12ga slugs/bullets

from 75 yds to 150+ yds. Even in the old days. Here is picture from a 1926

Manton catalog showing, 1st picture, many brass case old time slug loads.

Notice the 20 bore and 12 bore ones with pointed slugs, seems

as ideas to hotrod 20s and 12s are old hat, not quite as strong as 12ga FH

but as strong as some factory hotrod loads now ....We can do more

now due to better guns, powder selection, and accumulated research.

Picture #1 from lancaster and CptCurl on Nitroexpress.

 

2nd picture is from the Greener book, of double 8ga elephant guns.

 

2rd is picture of an early falling block for big bores

called the Field I think. Looks like some other

side levers, looks like lever works forward.

 

And speaking of falling blocks 4th picture is the

start or 'fixins' so to speak for the next step

up, for our 2bore. Same design as the 4 and 8

bores only wider.

 

We are now getting 2.25" OD barrel reamed

out to the two bore size.

And a square hole for breach block done

in that hunk of 4130 steel.Ed

 

 

1130013.jpg

 

gr4.jpg

 

gr2.jpg

 

start2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this is cool stuff. Anybody that can actualy manufacture a firearm has my respect.

 

I remember reading about the big bores the comercial duck hunters used to mount to their boats back in the day.

 

This just goes to show you there is something for everyone in the world of shooting sports.

 

I think we can all relate to wanting the biggest, most wicked example of some type of weapon.

 

 

Do you have to make a special lead blend for the slugs to push them at those velocities, or do you just use standard slugs?

 

:welcome:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For full bore slugs they use a hard alloy lead mix. Plus they

can heat treat the slugs for extreme speed, IE, they can go

as fast as jacketed slugs which we have also.

 

Some more stuff from the old days---

First is picture sectioned Explora case and slug, showing how

they kept weight down so that it could be stepped up in

speed in older doubles, that didn't have real heavy barrels.

These guns had short section of rifling at the end

of the barrel or shallow rifling. THis allowed more speed

than old foster slugs which flattened the trajectory,

and along with rifling spin, allowed for longer range shooting.

 

 

Second picture from Greener book here, is of older 4 and

8 gauges.And you can see videos some of these great old

guns on Youtube.

 

Third picture shows steps of making 4bore case, one inch bore,

from 20mm. 2nd in picture is case with base turned and swaged

to size which leaves base smaller than rim, for rimmed case.

Then 3rd case has top expanded to take 1" diameter slug.

last shows the thickness and strength of finished case.

This case matches the turned 4bore case that Ken Owen had made

for the 4bore doubles he built.

 

 

 

explora.jpg

 

gr3.jpg

 

make4.jpg

 

 

And more from the old days, here is picture of

a variety of slugs being promoted and used a century ago.

And 2nd picture Paradox cases old and new.Bottom one is a

more modern version sold by H&H for slug hunters.

 

3rd is what a 4bore slug, if stop framed so to speak, would

look just leaving the muzzle of the 4bore falling block

we built. Some 4bores were used in the old days but they were

poorly stocked and balanced for taming recoil. Ours with thick

pads, thumbhole stock, proper balance with 1500gr

slug at 2000 all our guys here can handle just fine..Ed

 

gr1.jpg

 

parcases.jpg

 

phbul.jpg

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more slug experimenting and developement.

Here are pictures of the full bore Lee Key Slug

we had a guy cast. He took Lee Key mold and machined

it out to cast a .729" full bore slug.

The original Lee mold makes slugs smaller diameter,

so that they fit in a 12ga wadcup.

Slugs are hard cast alloy to take high speeds..

In picture is two MRC 2 5/8" brass 12ga cases with

slugs in them. These slugs with those brass cases are

being tested first in rifled barrels in a guys 1887 WIN,

where they needed short combination to feed from tube.

These slugs have real good shoulder step to

roll crimp against when used in plastic cases.

 

These first ones are 500 gr.The guys are reworking

another die to get the weight up to about 600gr,

that some of our the brass case guys want to use.

So many guys like the 600 gr size, but these with

the partly hollow base allows them to be longer,

for a little more stability,if used in smooth barrels.

Lee molds are not a real high price so it isn't

a bad deal to get them and change them.

 

Some newer slug ideas coming around. First is Brenneke,

a locked on base ounce slug, in sabot at factory speed of

16-1700 or so in 3" plastic.Really go in our 3.5" loads.

Brenekke has had full bore slugs with lock-on seal and

cushion, but this new appliction putting them in a sabot.

Picture #2

 

 

Third is Dupleks, steel slug riding on a plastic band,

penetrates very well. About 1 1/8 oz.And no steel touches

the bore only the plastic.Should have good penetration

witout breaking apart.These are front heavy will get

fair accuracy in smooth bores.

 

 

 

 

keys2.jpg

 

SS60350.jpg

 

Monolit_32_picture.jpg

 

 

A new slug from the EU,a new 300gr US-S slug with locked

on base, discarding petals, by European Cartridge. Accurate

in smooth bores, Using the same idea as their all brass slugs

we showed above with locked on base, and discarding front petals.

Only these are mostly aluminum to get a lighter slug combo.In the

first picture.In 3" plastic they load to over 2100 with shotgun

powders. In a 3.5" plastic and our slower powders

we can get 2800. 2nd picture some results of penetration tests

in a sand bank they did. The brass centers penetrate like the

all brass ones they make.They are reporting 2" groups from regular

barreled smoothbore pumpguns at 50 yds with scope.Ed

 

p1010011dj.jpg

 

p1010009zh.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are always looking for way to shoot 8 and 10s

using easy to get components,cheap, without buying

loaded rounds for big bucks, if available at all.

 

In 8ga falling block, plastic case got 930gr hollowbase

slug to 2300, It is a slug for 10 ga that we expanded

base a little to fit tight in 8ga wadcup. On the left in

picture. At 30 yds 3" group. Just with open sight,

About like the 10ga sight bead. There is enough hollow in

the base it flies pretty good from 8ga smooth barrel.

 

Along same line, in my 10ga 32" smooth bull barrel with a

750 gr .69cal hollowbase Dixie MZ slug in VP100

10ga wadcup about same speed and same accuracy.

Nice to just get a box of slugs that is in stock,

and a 2 cent cent wadcup and Fed 3.5" 10ga plastic cases

and be shooting cheap.And the cases roll crimp nice

down to these slugs...

 

8gawad.jpg

 

A different, interesting style, of 12ga slug, from Russia.

First picture loaded round, in plastic, roll crimped.

Second, two types of slugs they have on the same base.

Base for rifled barrel, little smaller diameter than the

front. Looks like the roll crimp locks against

the edge of the base. Neat idea, and it could have a

flat meplat slug on the front of the base like

the US-S brass slugs from Greece are on the

plastic bases, that I have here. They must use a crimping

die with a deep hollow up in the middle. We have thought

of taking a roll crimper and putting a deeper recess

in middle to load longer nose slugs further out so as to

have more room for our slower powders...

 

rucase.jpg

 

ruslug.jpg

 

 

Here is picture of a great sizer for expanded plastic

cases, a MEC Super Sizer. It operates with collets. Sizes

cases better than factory. Has the power to shrink

expanded basecups. 2nd picture is the roll crimper tool

in drill press, it does plastic cases as good a roll crimp

as the factory does.You can see couple we crimped

behind press base in picture...Ed

 

mec.jpg

 

drill.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is picture of 4 long cases, top being a Rocky Mtn Cartridge

3.5" turned brass 20ga. Next a RMC 3.5" turned brass 12ga.

3rd down our 3.85" 12ga FH we made from BMG brass. Bottom

a RMC 3.85" turned brass 12ga FH case.

 

rip4.jpg

 

 

Next picture shows one of the old ways they locked slugs

into paper cases. Many old slugs had a wide deep groove

which made it possible to crimp that way.

 

bodycrimp.jpg

 

 

Next pictures shows bullet jackets made from a copper tubing caps.

Caps are the ones they solder on to copper pipes, and they made

a die and punch to form them to a good nose shape and

size. Then they fill them from rear with lead.

Example; 1/2" cap does 700cal and 12ga with

right dies and punches.

 

jbullet.jpg

 

buljkt.jpg

 

 

Last the 2nd gun we put the 585HE long belted case in,

a Ruger 77 bolt action. it has a heavy 585 cal barrel,

and it is a real strong action....Ed

 

585ruger.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are couple more pictures of longer bullets

in sabots, loaded in plastic cases, with the

roll crimp down against the sabot. Both are

ideas tested by European Cartridge in Greece,

who make the US-S slugs. Both longer bullets

pictured have the locked on base that their

other US-S slugs have, for smooth bore accuracy.

2nd picture shows a deep hollow roll crimper

for doing slugs like these.Ed

 

pushin.jpg

 

usslongnose.jpg

 

 

We also had RMC make us a long brass 28ga case.

It is 3.25" long as shown in picture. They could be

3" or whatever you would want. The 550 Mag rifled barrels

are perfect bore for them, and we did one

in a Mossy 695 bolt gun, 2nd picture...Added heavy barrel.

It is shown next to a 505 Gibbs brass

case 1st picture to show that it isn't a puny case.

And chamber still fires plastic 28ga like the

new Brenekke slugs just out.Ed

 

28fhg.jpg

 

moss28d.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First picture is an RC4 brand slug I see is available

down under. It has locked base like Brenekke.

And locked on without discarding petals, like US-S.

 

And 2nd picture is a group fired with RC4 slugs

by fellow on NitroExpress forums from a good

double 12ga, 2 left and 2 rights at 25yds.

This shows the possibilities of working with smoothbores,

rather than not trying to make them work.

 

3rd picture is a discarding sabot base slug, and with

four discarding sabot carriers, with centered

penetrating solid bullet, from France.Ed

 

rcslug.jpg

 

 

rctarget.jpg

 

 

frsabot.jpg

 

 

In earlier thread I mentioned the long brass 28ga case

we setup. Well here is picture of a revolving 28ga

we will try to get later on and put in heavy barrel

and longer chamber and use brass 28ga cases.Ed

 

SCJ28B_011.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more slug and sabot ideas folks are doing.

 

First is a long pointed slug with locked on base,

It goes to target with base,can work smoothbore.

 

paraklese.jpg

 

Second is picture of Hexolit sabot base slug

with petals expanded, sure would make bad wound.

 

hexolit.jpg

 

Third shows a variety of Gualandi slugs you can

get for reloading, and we're finding that these

locked base slugs, Brenekke/USS style slugs, are

giving good accuracy in smooth barrels which can

save when doing heavy barrels.Weights shown in

grams, get our weights in grains multiply by 15.4..Ed

 

gualandi.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are some more sabot/slug and loading concepts.

 

First is Alcan 2.75" paper case with Dixie 600gr slug,

with the side of the case crimped into the relief/lube

groove of the Dixie slug.The groove in the Dixie isn't

quite as deep as the groove in the Fosbury slug shown

in earlier post, but still seems to crimp fairly tight.

 

alcan.jpg

 

Next are various slugs in 12ga REM sabots that take

57 cal slugs and bullets.Those sabots are from the REM

Accutip loadings. In picture you can see one of the

REM 385gr jkt bullets they use. Also is sabot

with 20ga cast Lyman. On right sabot with hardcast 585 cal

640gr lead bullet, the ones I use in my 585HE wildcat

case. I sized it down a little, perfect fit.

Also the .575 cal Dixie Gunworks lead slugs will do.

 

Also shown is a long pointed 55 Boys bullet in one,

fairly tight fit.We cut back .3" of bullet off so it

fit for length in sabot and is 750gr.

 

12ls58.jpg

 

Third are 3.5" brass and plastic with the REM sabot and

the 750gr pointed slugs in them.In all the sabot work we

and others have done, trying to get accuracy and high

speeds together, maybe there is such a thing as too

much plastic. IE, sabots too thick on the sides if doing

50cal or smaller in 12ga sabots, for heavier slugs

at high speeds. Thinner sides may discard more evenly at

the greater pressures and violence of high speeds.

Thin sides may have less give so that sabot grips slug

better to impart spin in rifled use. Example in

smoothbore use is the USS slugs, where the brass slug

is .629" with thin discarding petals that have proven to

be very accurate. And with both reasonable priced sabot

offerings the last few years being undersize, accuracy

problems, etc, maybe time to try something else.

 

Got to find whole bunch of these sabots. Are these pictured

12ga REMs the only 58cal ones around? I can't find others,

and maybe we can find where these are made. As I have

huge numbers of the 585 slugs, which by the way I think

is best hunting combination, without extremely heavy slugs

which suffer for the speeds needed for longer range use.

It is hard lead, good for big game.And my guy can make many,

many more if needed whether for 585HE rifles

or in sabots if we can find some.ED

 

55sabot.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more sabot and slug ideas, discarding types

and locked on base types.

 

First picture of 20ga Buckhamer pulled apart. The bunch

I have were pulled apart, the slug won't lock back in

tight, into the base.

 

buckha20.jpg

 

Second is various 20ga sabot/slug ideas some using

buckhammer sabot bases that a bunch of 458 cal lead

slugs and jackted slugs I have, lock into real tight.

The 458 lead ones are 400gr, jkt are 350gr.

 

And I got some empty SPW 20 gauge sabots, and 20ga

Buckhammer slugs lock into them real tight.I have

many of these slugs. These slugs are 440gr.

 

Also is 3" 20ga FED factory sabot shell and one of

discarding sabots out of the case. Also a 3.5" 20ga

Hastings 3.5" load with black locked on base sabot,

and sabots out of the case and couple 20 brass

3.5" RMC cases.

 

20sabsl.jpg

 

Next is variety of 12ga sabots with 50cal slugs

in them.2 white and the pink sabot are FED, The black

is Hornady, With a 50cal long bullet .

The grey, is a BPI with .504" cast 440gr slug.

I wish the BPI was full size like the others

and fit rifled barrels tight for accuracy.........

 

12ls50.jpg

 

Last 12ga SPWs from Slug-R-US(30 cents ea) with various

50 cal slugs locked in tight, and shown with one out of

a factory load, the dark colored one. 50cal 385gr

Great Plains ML slugs lock in perfect for a lighter

loading. Other ML slugs will do and a few of

the Dixie Gunworks 50cal slugs lock in also...Ed

 

 

12spws.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more slug setups and ideas.

 

First is USS brand sabot that European cartridge has, without

locked base, a discarding 12ga sabot, with .629" brass slug.

It is as accurate in rifled barrel as its locked on base

counterpart, in smooth barrels. Up to 750 gr brass slug

I tested. 3 shots in an inch, 30yds.

Shown with BPI powder cup seals.

 

4uss.jpg

 

 

 

2nd is the USS slugs with locked on base for comparison.

With corresponding length cases they were designed for.

 

eucart.jpg

 

 

 

3rd are heavy solid tungsten slugs, the smaller .580" cal and

1200gr, the bigger ones .660" cal and 2200 gr.

A guy in Southern MI made a few for me to check out. Now these

too hard to fire fullbore, damage rifling, must be in plastic.

These are just what the super heavy slug guys might like.

 

tung.jpg

 

 

 

4th is a 1000gr 58cal tungsten slug in a 12ga REM style

58cal sabot. Notice how short it is for being super heavy.

 

tungsab.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is some more older cartridges and ideas.

First is a fellows collection of older brass cases.

They look like Berdan primed. Run from

36ga to 12ga, big one on right is flare cartridge.

 

36-12brass.jpg

 

Second is a paper case clad with

thin brass nearly to the top.

 

paperbrass.jpg

 

Third is picture of paper case crimped into

the side of a slug with shallow grooves.I did one

pictured above with a Dixie slug.

 

papercrimp.jpg

 

Some experimenting with 12ga discarding style sabot idea

that takes 58cal slugs/bullets.I pictured them above.

A fullbore,bore fitting sabot that takes 575-580 cal

slugs or bullets, cast or jacketed.

 

For reloaders to use, and not undersize ones

that have been available, for reloading guys. That

the guys haven't been able to get speed and accuracy

at the same time. These sabots are super accurate in

most tests, in factory Remington sabot loads. Much

more so than the undersize sabots reloaders have

had to work with.

 

I tested with the 440 gr .575cal hollowbase

Dixie Gunworks # BA-1103 lead slug and 3 shots from

heavy long barrel NEF nearly into same hole, at

30yds. Gun locked down. Going about 2200.

Our slow powder loads in 3.5" plastic.

Can be loaded faster.

 

No tests at long range, bad eyes/no scope, colder

than witches ---, and no time.

I am trying to find who makes these.There are

about 2000 injection mold companies in US.Ed

 

12ls58.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×