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MOST APPROPRIATE 10MM TO HANDLE THE "HOT" LOADS

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Hello everybody. My quest for a great 10mm continues. I just wanted to get some opinions about the 10mm semi-auto. I have heard, from different places, that the 1911 and other 10mm semi-auto platforms wernt made to handle the "full", "hot", or "heavy" loads. Some say the 1911 was wasnt made to handle those pressures whiile other say the glock may be less suited to handle them. Im just wondering what would be the most appropriate semi-auto for the more potent loads to shoot with, long term with the least amount of stress or poss damage to the frame ect....? Im not takling 1000's or rounds monthly but I'd like to know that Im going to be able to shoot the "hot" loads and know that I have the best pistol to handle them. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Older non lightened Witness fullsized are pretty strong. Older S&W 10xx series also. I have owned both and in my opion the Witness held up better then my 1006 and 1086.

 

The 610 S&W wheel gun is the strongest 10mm going.

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A good 1911 with a ramped barrel is not going to come apart from some hot loads. Set up with a 25 lb mainspring and a flat bottom firing pin stop, along with a 18.5 lb recoil spring, the frame will see about the same stress as 45 ACP loads.

 

The slide is containing significantly more force however. The 45 ACP is a 21,000 PSI MAP cartridge. Caclulating the surface area of and deriving the force you seen 3738 lbs of force on the breach face. The 10mm is a 37,500 PSI MAP cartridge. That works out to 5344 lbs of force on the breach face. You can't almost double the pressure/force on a pressure vessel and expect the same service life.

 

That said, I don't know that a 1911 is inferior to any other design in handling the 10mm Auto. It is a high pressure round and as a result you should expect to see decreased service life anyway.

 

Now, then, what is the expected lifespan of a 1911 slide? Depends on a lot, but there are plenty of GI spec slides out there with 250,000, 500,000 or more rounds through them. Lets just say you are going to replace the slide at 500,000 rounds on a 45 ACP gun to be ahead of the curve. I would expect 300,000 rounds or maybe 400,000 rounds to be an appropriate service interval then for 10mm.

 

I just made those numbers up. I looked for the GI service specs but couldn't find them. I swear I have read them before somewhere.

 

Point it, you are not likely to wear out a 1911 slide. In fact, STI and Caspian for sure warranty their slides forever. Even those with a 40/10mm breach face.

 

I used the 1911 platform as an example, and I am quite familiar with the 1911. But I also own two Witnesses and a Glock 29 to go along with my 10mm Para's. Point is, all of them are plenty strong for a steady diet of full power ammo. And even if you were going to shot 1,000 round each month I would expect it to be 25-30 years before you started to see issues from properly executed examples of any of the guns on the market (excluding the rounded/scalloped slide Witness guns which have known batches with metallurgical issues).

 

Price....I would take either a Glock 20 or a Witness Elite Match. Both can be had for between $500 and $600 new (during sane times). Both will stand up fine. Moving up to the $600-$800 range, the Armscorp Tactical in 10mm is a real value right now. You can also find used 10XX guns in this range as well as the occasional Kimber.

 

The only issue I see with the Witness line is this. Every once in a while you get a rotten egg, no matter how good the chicken is. EAA does not have a great reputation for making people who had claims happy. S&W, Armscorp, Kimber, Glock on the other hand, usually do have pretty good CS if you need it.

Edited by sqlbullet

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A good 1911 with a ramped barrel is not going to come apart from some hot loads. Set up with a 25 lb mainspring and a flat bottom firing pin stop, along with a 18.5 lb recoil spring, the frame will see about the same stress as 45 ACP loads.

 

The slide is containing significantly more force however. The 45 ACP is a 21,000 PSI MAP cartridge. Caclulating the surface area of and deriving the force you seen 3738 lbs of force on the breach face. The 10mm is a 37,500 PSI MAP cartridge. That works out to 5344 lbs of force on the breach face. You can't almost double the pressure/force on a pressure vessel and expect the same service life.

 

That said, I don't know that a 1911 is inferior to any other design in handling the 10mm Auto. It is a high pressure round and as a result you should expect to see decreased service life anyway.

 

Now, then, what is the expected lifespan of a 1911 slide? Depends on a lot, but there are plenty of GI spec slides out there with 250,000, 500,000 or more rounds through them. Lets just say you are going to replace the slide at 500,000 rounds on a 45 ACP gun to be ahead of the curve. I would expect 300,000 rounds or maybe 400,000 rounds to be an appropriate service interval then for 10mm.

 

I just made those numbers up. I looked for the GI service specs but couldn't find them. I swear I have read them before somewhere.

 

Point it, you are not likely to wear out a 1911 slide. In fact, STI and Caspian for sure warranty their slides forever. Even those with a 40/10mm breach face.

 

I used the 1911 platform as an example, and I am quite familiar with the 1911. But I also own two Witnesses and a Glock 29 to go along with my 10mm Para's. Point is, all of them are plenty strong for a steady diet of full power ammo. And even if you were going to shot 1,000 round each month I would expect it to be 25-30 years before you started to see issues from properly executed examples of any of the guns on the market (excluding the rounded/scalloped slide Witness guns which have known batches with metallurgical issues).

 

Price....I would take either a Glock 20 or a Witness Elite Match. Both can be had for between $500 and $600 new (during sane times). Both will stand up fine. Moving up to the $600-$800 range, the Armscorp Tactical in 10mm is a real value right now. You can also find used 10XX guns in this range as well as the occasional Kimber.

 

The only issue I see with the Witness line is this. Every once in a while you get a rotten egg, no matter how good the chicken is. EAA does not have a great reputation for making people who had claims happy. S&W, Armscorp, Kimber, Glock on the other hand, usually do have pretty good CS if you need it.

Thanks. I have looked a bit at the armscorp tactical but am not really famaliar with their qulaity and reliability. Do you have personal experience with them? If so, how would you rate them compared to let say kimber?

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I have no experience with them personally. In general, recent Rock Island 1911's are great values and tend to be very well made. A couple of guys here have purchased them, and except for some issues with the barrels fouling have reported favorably about them. Barrel support looks very good, and Rock Island has stepped up and agreed to swap barrels for the guys that are having the issue with excessive fouling.

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My Dan Wesson Razorback has handled anything I fed her.

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My Dan Wesson Razorback has handled anything I fed her.

 

I have to agree with you, mine rocks!

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As previously mentioned, you might want to try the 610 revolver. These 'wheelies', will handle whatever you can dish out! I also, have a 625 S&W [unmodified] and routinely run, some .45 Super through it. Thinking of doing the .460 Rowland conversion for $100 dollars for more flexibility.

Edited by Zephyr One/Zero

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If you really want to play with the 10mm round, you NEED a 610. I have worked well past most published maximums (albeit slowly and carefully) in mine. The downside as soon as you pull the trigger the darn thing is empty. I do not have a bottom feeder, but mixing the ammo between the two would scare the crap out of me.

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If you really want to play with the 10mm round, you NEED a 610. I have worked well past most published maximums (albeit slowly and carefully) in mine. The downside as soon as you pull the trigger the darn thing is empty. I do not have a bottom feeder, but mixing the ammo between the two would scare the crap out of me.

 

Load the stuff for you 610 long.

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You can load them slightly longer than the SAAMI max. I loaded some coated 220 grain cast past the max with good result. I had an older Sierra book that had loads specific for T/C single shot, The 610 digested all of them with no sticking in the cylinder or primer flattening. I did have the holes in the cylinder polished smooth, that might have helped. All the loads were worked up slowly, but the results were terrific.

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I have a kimber ss target II. Seven years now. I have been very happy with it. Brass looks great with hot loads. Tac driver.

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And this ought to handle the job!

 

CappieHunterTradXlElite-4.jpg

Edited by gandog56

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of coruse the revolvers handle hotter loads better.

 

they also send X bullet slower from and equal or slightly longer barrel then a semi auto will due to the cylinder gap. when pressure bleeds out it will inherently be a less violent reaction. this is also why some people work up hotter loads in revolvers then semi's.

 

saying the 610 is the strongest 10mm out is a blanket statement.

 

properly spring your semi auto, and BUILD it for its intended purpose, and it will handle whatever you throw at it.

 

I have worked several loads up substantially past max published in my BONE STOCK FACTORY BARRLED glock 20 without any over pressure signs and minimal primer creatoring.

Edited by unsuperman

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If you really want to play with the 10mm round, you NEED a 610. I have worked well past most published maximums (albeit slowly and carefully) in mine. The downside as soon as you pull the trigger the darn thing is empty. I do not have a bottom feeder, but mixing the ammo between the two would scare the crap out of me.

Why go past the maximums? Seems unsafe and I have rarely (read that NEVER) found the most accurate rounds even near the max limits listed.

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