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smb5769

Sight picture after recoil

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Could someone tell me what Im doing wrong? When I fire my pistol, on recoil recovery my sight picture is front sight left of center. I know its kinda hard to tell me anything without actually being with me. I am left eye dominant, right hand shooter, using Glock 19. I've also had this with my 92.

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As you said, very hard to tell with out seeing you shoot, but you most likely have a grip issue that is affecting your natural point of aim. That is why the gun does not return to the same place after recoil. My first recommendation is to get some training from a reputable instructor.

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That would probably be easier said than done. It would be nice if I could find a shooting buddy, but I don't know many other(any other) people in my area that like to shoot. Most people around here only use their guns during hunting season, after that, nothing.

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That would probably be easier said than done. It would be nice if I could find a shooting buddy, but I don't know many other(any other) people in my area that like to shoot. Most people around here only use their guns during hunting season, after that, nothing.

Narrow down where "here" is.

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How narrow you need, Red? I'm in Northeast Louisiana, about an hour and a half from Monroe.

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Could someone tell me what Im doing wrong? When I fire my pistol, on recoil recovery my sight picture is front sight left of center. I know its kinda hard to tell me anything without actually being with me. I am left eye dominant, right hand shooter, using Glock 19. I've also had this with my 92.

May I suggest relaxing your support hand some? Choke the gun too much with your grip and your hands will pull it around too much when you fire. Mess with how you grip some until the sight starts to track straight up and down for you. Be patient and deliberate with your adjustments. Old habits with grip can be hard to overcome in just a few sessions. Practice until you no longer have to make an effort to get the result you want.

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Like Roy said. I think that you are gripping too "deep". Adjust to where the backstrap is a little more to the side where your sights end up. I.E. turn into the slide. If you rotate your grip a little in the direction that your gun ends up pointing, it will pull the sight back in the opposite direction. Your gun should be directly in line with your fore arm. If you feel tension in your hand pulling the gun to a particular side when you have it directly in line, then you have to counter that tension by adjusting the grip. It is kind of hard to explain without showing, but think of the slicks on the back of a drag racer when he takes off. The inner part of the tire torques against the wheel and you will see a pinwheel effect on the side wall. This is the same thing that happens in your hand when you are forcing a sight picture and not holding the gun with a natural grip/aim point.

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In other words I need to turn my pistol to line the sights up with my natural hand alignment.. and not try to grip the pistol then align the sights with my wrists? I think that's what's going on, I'm aligning the sights with my wrists, then when my hand returns the sights are lined up with my natural grip. I'm also shoving my grip hand into my support hand. The whole "push pull" thing.

Edited by smb5769

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Exactly! The push pull thing should be exactly in line with your natural aim to lock it into position. But, pointing the gun should be as natural as pointing your finger at something.

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What kind of stance are you using?

 

That is, what position are your feet in, and are you square to the target?

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Good morning,

I see two things i would check. The first, if you are shooting Weaver, stop it. I shot that way for the first 12 or so years of my career, then two things happened. First, i went to an academy class "Reactive Pistol Instructor" which is a fancy term for isosceles and had to try it for a week. Still kind of held on to Weaver, but then got lucky and went to InSights Intensive Handgun Skills class, where we shout about 2k + round in 4 days, all and all very fast. I became a believer and that is all i teach officers now. (Sorry for the long back story) The reason this would be my first consideration is that it is easily repeatable, which is one of the keys to speed and accuracy. Your arms, fully extended, can only make one size triangle. This means your hands are in the same place every time; unlike Weaver, where the amount of push and pull pressure can change, which changes your poa. As someone mentioned in another string, put a dot on the wall and draw with your eyes closed, but this time, WITHOUT MOVING THE PISTOL, open your left eye see where the sights are. If they are not perfect, redo your presentation and this time item your right eye. I have seen several shooters with cross dominance issues have problems like this. I think you may be right eye dominant rather than left. To demonstrate what is happening hold your index and ring fingers up (rear sight) and push your middle finger away (front sight). Now close your left eye and get a good sight picture with your right eye. Now close your right eye and open your left and you should have what you are seeing at the end of your string. You may have to close one eye to get to where you want to be. Perhaps try closing your left and shooting right eye a bit, regardless of what the eye dominance tests show, you may have an easier time.

Take care

Edited by ftrnr

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In other words I need to turn my pistol to line the sights up with my natural hand alignment.. and not try to grip the pistol then align the sights with my wrists? I think that's what's going on, I'm aligning the sights with my wrists, then when my hand returns the sights are lined up with my natural grip. I'm also shoving my grip hand into my support hand. The whole "push pull" thing.

 

Personally, I think the unnatural grip, arm, and shoulder position caused by your adoption of the right-hand/left eye dominant, 'Quell Method' of aiming and shooting a pistol has a lot to do with your sight misalignment problem. I've been a pistol shooter for more than 60 years; and I've been teaching pistol shooting for the past 25 years, all, with outstanding success. I don't have to see you shoot. I already know that you're gripping the pistol incorrectly.

 

My suggestion would be for you to watch Robert Vogel's, 'How To Grip A Pistol' YouTube video. Vogel does an excellent job of demonstrating what all of the other senior pistol competitor/trainers are currently teaching. I don't care whether it's called the, 'Fist-Fire' method; or the, 'Reverse Chapman' stance; or the, 'Leatham Grip'. It's all the same thing - The very best way to grip a pistol so far invented by anyone!

 

Once you get your grip correct you'll be able to focus on managing recoil through your elbows, and all the way back to your shoulder points. The way I visualize this sort of pistol presentation is to imagine that my pistol is being held in a, 'triangulated support framework' that is formed by: (1) A proper grip on the pistol with the heels of your hands splayed outward at the bottom and away from each other, (2) locked wrists with flexible (but slightly tensed) elbows, and (3) minimal tension in the upper torso. (Something I suspect you're having a problem with now.)

When I'm shooting well I'm moving too fast, and the front sight is bouncing so quickly that, quite honestly, I doubt I'd be able to say how far right, or left the front sight is being recaptured in the rear notch? You are, clearly, firing off the entire front and rear sight combination; and I strongly suspect that you're also, placing equal emphasis on both sights. For postal target shooting (especially with one hand) I wouldn't point this out to you; but for fast paced combat pistol shooting, while firing multiple rounds, you should be PRIMARILY working with the top of your front sight - Which, evidently, you are not focusing on because if you were (1) the description you provide wouldn't be an, 'in the notch' description, and (2) you'd have already caught yourself, 'in flagrante' pulling the muzzle to the left. (If your eyes didn't tell you then the holes in your target would!)

 

Get your grip straightened out. Splay the heels of your hands away from each other; and, thereby, gain more lateral control over your muzzle's horizontal right/left motion. NOW, start working with the top of your front sight by encouraging the muzzle to move strictly up and down, up and down, up and down, between shots. Use your elbows to form a, 'working tension' between them and the backstrap of your pistol.

I'm sorry; but I can't help you with the tension caused by you craning your neck. It's a handicap that you're, somehow, just going to have to learn to live with. Regular dry-firing, and repetitive practice of George Harris', 'Wall Drill' should help to minimize the tendency to pull your muzzle to the left. (Make sure you're pulling the trigger straight back, too!) However, the only perfect answer is for you to learn how to manage a pistol with your left-hand; AND, in my years of experience teaching people how to do these things, I've yet to meet a crosseyed-dominant pistol shooter who is willing to shoot with his opposite hand for any length of time. I remember one fellow, who trained with me for a while, and was able to continue working a pistol with his support hand for about 3 months before he suddenly became uncomfortable and reverted back to being just another crosseyed-dominant pistol shooter.

 

(Regardless of the many comments to the contrary that I've read on IGF's, shooting with a crossed eye and hand isn't about simply, 'feeling good about yourself', or being comfortable with, 'what works for you'. Crosseyed-dominant pistol shooting creates an additional handicap for the shooter to have to overcome, and requires much more flexibility from him in order to, repeatedly, hit the target well.)

Edited by Silver Bullet
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