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oldman10mm

NATO compliant primers

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CCI has their line of primers white box #41 for 5.56 and #34 for 7.62. Has anyone run across any info as to what other primers have achieved NATO compliance use ?

Magnum primers,such as Rem 9 1/2M,because they're intended for higher pressure cartridges,would they have a harder cup and be acceptable ?

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Good question. I will be waiting to hear a respose

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a follow-up to my original post/question. I've seen on the Federal site for Federal GM205MAR for use in 5.56 small rifle AR Match. I've got a box of Federal XM80C 7.62x51,but don't know if they use their own primer(large rifle primer for NATO AR not shown on Federal site) or use a different manufacturers' primer. On the Hornady site under ammunition,they list match ammo for 223,5.56x45,& 308 with an accompanying video showing ARs',so evidently Hornady is using NATO compliant primers.

Edited by oldman10mm

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I guess NATO compliant would mean they can handle the extra pressures etc that NATO runs their ammo at. The CCI are our local equivalent as you know and the BR primers in SR like the Remington 7 1/2 appear to handle higher pressures based on my work with the hot 20's I shoot. I use Federal LR primers, standard, for all my LR primed ammo. Never had an issue but I am not a worrier about various groups like NATO etc so it never concerns me much. Loading at sane pressures to extend brass life has always been my mantra.

 

Greg

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As far as I know, the only difference is a harder/thicker cup to reduce the chance of slam fires due to floating firing pins on AR's etc. Also they are "magnum force" to better light the allegedly harder-to-ignite ball-type powders used by the military. If you go to CCI's website, you will find this info. Also, Alliant Techsystems owns CCI and Federal and they are the biggest supplier to the US .gov of small arms ammo. I'm not sure about other companies. See ATK.com as well.

 

ETA: I have used regular CCI 400 SR primers by the thousands and never had a slam fire in any weapon. Just sayin'

Edited by mtrmn

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Pressure was not a concern for starting this thread,'slam-fires' was. In the case of the 308/7.62x51,pressures are just the opposite of the 223/5.56x45. The 7.62x51 operates at a designed lower pressure than the 308 Win does,but AR design for the 7.62 is similar/identical to the 5.56. It takes one 'hell of a' pressure to pressure puncture a primer,unless you've got a 'deformed' firing pin 'point' that unusually stresses the primer.

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Pressure was not a concern for starting this thread,'slam-fires' was. In the case of the 308/7.62x51,pressures are just the opposite of the 223/5.56x45. The 7.62x51 operates at a designed lower pressure than the 308 Win does,but AR design for the 7.62 is similar/identical to the 5.56. It takes one 'hell of a' pressure to pressure puncture a primer,unless you've got a 'deformed' firing pin 'point' that unusually stresses the primer.

 

If the primers will take the pressure then slam fires will be handled in turn. On overly long firing pin or one that has been torched by a puncture or abused by a blown primer is more likely to repeat those bad things in the future. That being said I use the Feds. in my M1A's and so far so good.

 

Greg

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I use feds too, with no problem thus far(knock on wood).......that being said, I read an article (on an "inferior" gun/ammo web site--the website has to do with "accurate shooters" and stuff, ahhhum) that claims CCI and Remington 7 1/2 primers are the hardest and therefore provide the greatest protection against slam fires, with the CCI #41 providing the most protection against slam fires.

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I use feds too, with no problem thus far(knock on wood).......that being said, I read an article (on an "inferior" gun/ammo web site--the website has to do with "accurate shooters" and stuff, ahhhum) that claims CCI and Remington 7 1/2 primers are the hardest and therefore provide the greatest protection against slam fires, with the CCI #41 providing the most protection against slam fires.

 

Did I wite that over there?? :cool:

 

Greg

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Did I wite that over there?? :cool:

 

Greg

I wouldn't doubt it..........didn't you write the book on it all, at one time or another? :D:

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I believe Wolf also has certain primers recommended for AR use, but I've also seen several bad reports on Wolf primers as well. I have not seen any other brands of primers other than CCI and Wolf that claimed to be different in any way for use in these weapons.

 

I realize military ammo (5.56) operates at higher pressures, but I believe the main issue is the fact that many semiauto weapons do not have springs on the firing pins and could possibly ignite a primer by inertia when the bolt slams into battery. This is evidenced by the little dimple on the primer of a round that has been chambered but not fired.

Not saying that this danger is exaggerated, but again, I have used "normal" primers for years before I even knew the military primers were available with no slam fires whatsoever.

 

As a side note, my son's Armalite AR10 DOES have a firing pin spring.

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I wouldn't doubt it..........didn't you write the book on it all, at one time or another? :D:

 

Nope. I complied a book I published but never wrote it. I stole a chapter from Elmer, one from Jack, another from George, one from Bill and Craig. I'm a great compilier.

 

Greg

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Nope. I complied a book I published but never wrote it. I stole a chapter from Elmer, one from Jack, another from George, one from Bill and Craig. I'm a great compilier.

 

Greg

Well, I'll be waiting for the dewey decimal number assigned to that one and will pic up my own copy and a few extras... to price gouge at E-Bay! :coffecomputer: :tiphat:

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I use no 41s for ARs and yes the Rems are pretty much close to the same thing.

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If you look in the reloading manuals for service rifle loads you will see they use primers with the thickest cups. The slam fire problem occurred on the M14 and M16 rifles when a single cartridge was loaded into the chamber and the bolt was allowed to slam shut "without" the magazine inserted in the rifle. With the magazine in place the bolt velocity is reduced and firing pin does not have enough force to fire the cartridge. The military lightened the firing pin on the M16 and went to thicker primer cups and reduced slam fire possibilities to 1 in 10 million.

 

NOTE: The original primers use on the 5.56 were Remington 6 1/2 (.020) and were switched to the 7 1/2 (.025) primers to fix the slam fire problem along with a lighter firing pin.

 

Below, it is the .019 and .020 primer cups that can cause problems on the AR15, large rifle primers are .027 thick and not a problem. The CCI #41 and #31 have shorter anvils that require more force to ignite the primer.

 

calhoonprimers02.png

 

Choosing The Right Primer - A Primer On Primers

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

 

Primers and Pressure Analysis

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/

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