bj139 43 Report post Posted January 31 I just bought an 18" American 30 barrel. I bought some 30 Herrett Pacific dies and found the expander did not fit in the 6.8mm case. So, I ran some cases into a 300 Blackout die to enlarge the neck being careful not to run the case in too far. I then ran the cases into the 30 Herrett die just until I felt some shoulder resistance. The shoulder got a bit sharper and I stopped. I seated a bullet into an empty case for testing. I forgot I have to trim to 1.620" and will do this next. I wonder why the chamber was designed to be trimmed at all? Why not just size and load? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 1 I just bought an 18" American 30 barrel. I bought some 30 Herrett Pacific dies and found the expander did not fit in the 6.8mm case. So, I ran some cases into a 300 Blackout die to enlarge the neck being careful not to run the case in too far. I then ran the cases into the 30 Herrett die just until I felt some shoulder resistance. The shoulder got a bit sharper and I stopped. I seated a bullet into an empty case for testing. I forgot I have to trim to 1.620" and will do this next. I wonder why the chamber was designed to be trimmed at all? Why not just size and load? Because if you tried to seat heavy bullets in the cases the ogive will be back in the case neck. Also based on where the bullets ride in the magazine this is the longest that can be used and still allow reliable feeding from a magazine due to the location of the ribs. As to your 300 BLK the expander is the same size. You just have to lube the inside of the necks to expand. From 277 to 308 is nothing in the expansion world. I used 6X6.8 cases fired a dozen times to make mine. No issues at all and no neck splits. You just have to be strong and do it. I KNEW mine was going to crush yet after making severl hundred cases I have not lost one nor have the other two developers. W spent months working out all the nuances on this one when we designed it. It outruns any other short 30 on the market and is right with the 30 RAR. It is 150 FPS faster than a 30-30 in an AR platform. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 1 BTW if you post questions up in the Alternative or Reloading areas everyone here can learn a f ew guys wander through this area. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 2 I can see this site again. Thanks for your help GL. I have been making dummy rounds of American 30. I trimmed two cases to 1.610 and 1.615. I was trying for 1.620 but overtrimmed a bit. With a receiver and BCG the cases would not extract so I guess they are a little too short and would not engage the extractor. They fell out when I turned the barrel upside down. I seated a 110g Hornady Vmax to a COAL of 2.310 and they fit in a magazine. They also now extracted from the barrel with the extractor so I guess the bullet is in the lands. I don't know if I should try to fireform with a few grains of red dot and some wadding (no bullet) or should I load some 20% below max loads and just shoot at the range. I think I did read where the shoulder will be blown forward to fit the chamber. Anyway, I'm taking it slow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 2 Trim length has nothing to do with extraction unless it's too long jammed into the throat with a bullet. Shoulder height is the issue. Size the shoulder a bit less on a couple of cases and try again. There have been several reamer changes since Ritch and I developed this cartridge. Get couple cases to fit and blowthem out with Red D or Bullseye and corn meal toget some comparison cases. Then you can use the Sinclair bullet seating tool to keep out of trouble. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 5 I found that if I touch the shoulder any amount with the Herrett die the case is too deep in the chamber and the extractor does not get over the case rim. It works if I just expand the neck with a Lee .308 depriming rod with expander inserted into my Lee universal decapping die. Then, I just trim and the case fits in the chamber and the extractor snaps over the rim and can be ejected. I close the bolt slowly as you mention in another thread to avoid hammering the shoulder back. Next I will try fire forming with corn meal after the Superbowl since my neighbors should not notice because of the firecrackers people will set off. If the Eagles win I should be able to do a lot of fireforming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 5 Yeah. I belive you have derivation #4. I've got a Savage barrel chambered like that I haven't shot. Looking forward to your report. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 5 I didn't get to fireform since our dog was nervous hearing the fireworks. If I touched one off in the basement he may have passed out. I also thought it through and realized I did not want to be blowing corn meal all over the basement. I think I might have some old 30 cal plinkers which I will load for fireforming. I will report when I do more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 5 I just shoot them into a trash can if I do it at home. Do you have the Hornady Head Space tool? Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 6 I don't have the Hornady headspace tool. Do I need it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 6 You need something to measure with. A 38 Special case will help. Go to the reloading area here and read the sticky on poor man head space gauge. You need it to set your dies up properly. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 6 How do I upload photos here? I plan to load 10 rounds with 25gr of H335 and a 125gr TNT bullet and shoot. I thought photos of brass might be helpful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 6 Setup an IMGUR account. The FAQ's here tell you how to post them to the board. On IMGUR you just pull down the link tab and select the BB code lower left, copy and paste it in your thread. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 6 (edited) On other sites I can upload photos as long as they are small. I set up a Flickr account but they wanted to scan my computer and upload all my photos to their site. I am not ready to turn my computer over to a third party. I just loaded 10 rounds as I said above. Three chambered and extracted fine and the bullet had no marks. I seated them a lttle longer than a factory 55gr 223 round. They drop in with a thunk and fall out freely when inverted. I will try to shoot them tomorrow at 50 yards. I will post photos from an image hosting site if I can figure out how to limit them in their zeal to get more photos. https://www.flickr.com/photos/141960851@N06/40122660141/in/datetaken/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/141960851@N06/39223269655/in/datetaken/ https://www.flickr.com/gp/141960851@N06/v1Uqef https://www.flickr.com/gp/141960851@N06/tN0x15 Which of these can you see? The first 2 or last 2 or both? Edited February 6 by bj139 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 6 On other sites I can upload photos as long as they are small. I set up a Flickr account but they wanted to scan my computer and upload all my photos to their site. I am not ready to turn my computer over to a third party. I just loaded 10 rounds as I said above. Three chambered and extracted fine and the bullet had no marks. I seated them a lttle longer than a factory 55gr 223 round. They drop in with a thunk and fall out freely when inverted. I will try to shoot them tomorrow at 50 yards. I will post photos from an image hosting site if I can figure out how to limit them in their zeal to get more photos. https://www.flickr.com/photos/141960851@N06/40122660141/in/datetaken/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/141960851@N06/39223269655/in/datetaken/ https://www.flickr.com/gp/141960851@N06/v1Uqef https://www.flickr.com/gp/141960851@N06/tN0x15 Which of these can you see? The first 2 or last 2 or both? I see neither Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 6 I clicked on the second from the bottom and saw the cases. They looked OK. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 6 Because if you tried to seat heavy bullets in the cases the ogive will be back in the case neck. Also based on where the bullets ride in the magazine this is the longest that can be used and still allow reliable feeding from a magazine due to the location of the ribs. Greg I did see that the case just misses the front rib in the magazine. Otherwise it would be a tighter fit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 6 I am really interested in what that shoulder moves to. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 6 Maybe I should measure them using your 38 case method before and after firing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 6 Maybe I should measure them using your 38 case method before and after firing? That's what I would do. You need a baseline.if you want proper records. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 7 (edited) I meaured 10 of them with a new 357 mag case which measured 1.285". They were either 2.635"(2), 2.636"(4) or 2.637"(4). I loaded them backwards in the magazine so I could keep them in order if I remember to remove them one by one from the brass catcher. They should probably blow forward by more than .002", don't you think? I will try to shoot them tomorrow and post some results. The weather forecast says snow and rain so I may delay till Thursday. I have decided to concentrate on the American 30 for now and will get to the 6x6.8 after. I was getting confused trying to keep all the different dies and sizing procedures straight in my head. American 30 = 30 Herrett dies, expand neck, don't touch shoulder, check chambering and extraction, prime, charge, seat bullet with 30 Herrett seating die. 6x6.8 = Wilson 6.8 spc bushing size die, .285 bushing, .267 bushing, check chambering and extraction, prime, charge, seat bullet with 6.5 Grendel seating die. 6.5 Grendel seater is the closest diameter, shortest die I have so I will use it for now. Maybe buy a 6PPC die later. Edited February 7 by bj139 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 7 Please zero your calipers with the 38 case. Those lengths do not equate to anything repeatable on my end.My 38 case on a fired A-30 is 2.508. Subtracting the case my number is 1.359. Now we could compare. Your case could be long or short compared to mine. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 7 (edited) I am using a manual dial caliper so subtraction will be necessary. 2.636 - 1.285 = 1.351" I provided both numbers in my last post. So you are saying my case may blow forward to 1.359"? Maybe this would be expected with new brass. Edited February 7 by bj139 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLShooter 1,518 Report post Posted February 7 I am using a manual dial caliper so subtraction will be necessary. 2.636 - 1.285 = 1.351" I provided both numbers in my last post. So you are saying my case may blow forward to 1.359"? Maybe this would be expected with new brass. It's hard to tell what your number will be. New brass given different chambers might move 0.002 to as much as 0.012. Once you shoot it we'll see. Greg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bj139 43 Report post Posted February 7 (edited) Today snow and rain. One of the main highways here is closed due to an accident. Will try to get to the range tomorrow. The headspace gauge idea is a dandy. The 357 mag case was even long enough to clear the bullet. "Use what you got". Edited February 7 by bj139 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
