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I called this "newbie" tactics because I come at this as a newbie who has never taken a carbine course before. So fair warning.

 

Having finally gotten my AR15 squared away I am now thinking of getting off the bench. (Not that I've never shot off the bench before but previously it was always exceptional, most of my time was on the bench.) Most of my previous practice was aimed at being a better hunter.

 

I've watched several carbine training videos on youtube, some police videos, and some military videos. I wanted to get some idea of what is being practiced in training and in real conflicts. I'm going to try and summarize what I've seen and comment here:

 

1) Forced breach entry, both military and police. This is not something I think I need to train for.

 

2) House clearing. This could be relevant to a self defense situation. I'm aware that it's good advice to call the police and stay in your safe bedroom when you know an intruder is in your home but there are two things that can disrupt that advice: a) you're not sure, you just heard a noise, and b) there are others in the home that you are responsible for protecting.

 

3) Firing in an assault. This seems to be a big part of carbine training programs (and it's popular in the movies now), shooting while moving foward. This makes total sense for military and police on the attack but I can't see a lot of application for self defense except possible in the context of #2 above if you encounter an intruder while moving down a hallway but even then why not just stop to shoot?

 

4) Bench shooting. It's funny how many military videos are just guys popping off rounds at distant targets from a comfortable defensive position such as a fortificaiton or berm. Typically the video ends when artillery or air support silences the opposition. One can imagine this in an extreme home defense scenario but it's probably the technique that requires the least training and is most trained for.

 

5) Meeting engagement. The surprise close encounter and the violently fast exchange of gunfire is probably the most common police situation and certainly the most dangerous. It could be mutually surprising or an ambush. In either case, you're surprised and fighting for your life against relatively close targets. This could be an aspect of #2 above but it is more general. Of all the scenarios I can imagine, this is the one I would want to focus on training for but it's also probably the hardest to simulate.

 

 

I remember an encounter with a wild pig on a hunt. We had already given up for the day and were walking back to our vehicle when someone spooked a pig from it's hiding place. It took off across an open field. To say that we were all surprised would be an understatement. I instinctively dropped to a knee while the others in my party shot offhand. I was the only one who got a hit (and got the bacon).

 

My experince at the range has taught me that offhand for anything beyond about 25 yards is iffy but the tradeoff is you give up mobility, not an issue since pigs don't shoot back. I don't remember seeing any training videos that discuss whether and when to assume a more stable firing position.

 

Obviously I need to get to a place where I can train off the bench but what kind of practice would you recommend?

 

What are your thoughts on this? What am I overlooking or getting wrong? What should I be reading or watching?

 

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No comments?

 

I came across this video.

 

"Why Range Training Might Be Conditioning Us To Regurgitate The Wrong Answers"

 

He makes the point that the range should be used primarily for movement mechanics and marksmanship. I'm still questioning the value of the former outside of military/police but the later is obviously crucial. I think I'll focus on off-bench marksmanship for now.

 

I was also thinking about non-live-fire options. There are simunitions, airsoft, paintball, and laser. The problem with these is that you know they are non-lethal. I was always much braver with these than I probably would be, or should be, in a genuinely deadly environment. People rationally cower behind cover when the bullets are whizzing past.

 

Anyway, I'd sure love to hear your thoughts.

 

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Training helps. You might be overthinking this.

 

Imo the top two things to drill until they're smooth and natural are safety discipline and getting a quick and accurate first shot from ready.

 

I have a personal favorite drill for these two things. It's kinda boring, but it has been good for me. I usually do this with a half foot circle target at ten yards. From a ready position, come up on target, get the safety off and your finger on the trigger. Don't shoot; finger off the trigger, safety on, come back down to ready. Do this a few times, thinking about how to make things more natural and efficient. When you're comfortable, do it again but shoot this time. Don't accept any misses at any time in this exercise. Drill alternating not-shooting with shooting for a while, then do it with two shots or three, being focused on how to use your body to prevent recoil and maintain control.

 

This drill probably sounds dumb and silly, but for me it caused a massive improvement in my speed, safety, and accuracy.

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What do YOU want to learn, what do YOU need to learn......

 

What is "needed" and what is "Fun"

 

Now to be honest we all know what you see on TV in 99.9 bullshat and does not work that way in real life.......

 

Any fool with a camera can make a you tube channel, you need to pick and choose carefully and watch the quality ones over dumb shat.

 

No your not expe ted to know what dumb shat is......sometimes its easy to find, other it not.....

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Steve Fisher (Yeti) at work......

 

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Yeti is the bomb, listen to him, learn from him, google hi and watch all of the different videos Steve Fisher is in.....

 

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See if you can find a local trainer who knows what he's doing.

 

There are also nationally known trainers who may travel to your state.

 

I host Northern Red every year here in Oregon. They're a no fluff group of Green Beret and ex Delta who have been there and done that. There are lots of other good well known trainers who travel as well.

 

If they're coming to your state I'd look into attending one of their classes.

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See if you can find a local trainer who knows what he's doing.

 

There are also nationally known trainers who may travel to your state.

 

I host Northern Red every year here in Oregon. They're a no fluff group of Green Beret and ex Delta who have been there and done that. There are lots of other good well known trainers who travel as well.

 

If they're coming to your state I'd look into attending one of their classes.

 

This is part of what I'm trying to figure out; I've taken a couple pistol courses but no carbine yet.

 

I think most trainers know their stuff but the tendency seems to be to repeat military/police training. That's tacticool, for sure, and maybe if you learn that, you learn what you need for self-defense.

 

The basics probably don't vary much.

 

Based on your experience with Northern Red am I offbase?

Edited by ipser

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Most trainers are full of shat.....expically if they are "NRA"

 

You need to ask what development training classes they have taken, what instructor classes, who they take classes from .

 

If they have not taken a class or 2 a year or working on instructor development....then run away.....

 

You need to research and ask questions directly to the trainer's, if they don't like you asking questions about who they dtudy under, what they are doing to improve, thy ae worthless and you need to utun away....

 

 

This is part of what I'm trying to figure out; I've taken a couple pistol courses but no carbine yet.

 

I think most trainers know their stuff but the tendency seems to be to repeat military/police training. That's tacticool, for sure, and maybe if you learn that, you learn what you need for self-defense.

 

The basics probably don't vary much.

 

Based on your experience with Northern Red am I offbase?

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This is part of what I'm trying to figure out; I've taken a couple pistol courses but no carbine yet.

 

I think most trainers know their stuff but the tendency seems to be to repeat military/police training. That's tacticool, for sure, and maybe if you learn that, you learn what you need for self-defense.

 

The basics probably don't vary much.

 

Based on your experience with Northern Red am I offbase?

Northern Red doesn't do a lot of "fluff". They drill the basic fundamentals into you and then add application. They're pretty well versed in the weapon systems, especially since many of them were Delta.

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My thought is for everyone to learn to shoot the weapons they choose for self defense

in as many different positions and in as many different environments as possible.

This includes when the weapon has malfunctioned, or the defender is injured.

 

It is up to the individual to examine their own circumstance, their strength and weaknesses,

and prioritize which training is most important.

 

You started out with the AR as primarily a hunting rifle, and now you are sensibly

evaluating what you need to develop your self defense skills. Kudos to you for

the thought you are putting into this.

 

To strip away the ugly details if you are looking for a "professional" trainer,

the foundation of what they all will be teaching, IMHO, is recognizing a deadly threat,

EDIT: To identify a threat one must develop their situational awareness,

which will also help you avoid the threat in the first place.

and putting rounds into that target as accurately and quickly as possible.

These skills also need to be accomplished under whatever stress can be applied on the range.

(Physical exertion, time, competition, etc)

 

I hope you bring us along on your journey. We all could learn something from

your experience, and I admire that you are giving this the weight it deserves.

 

John

 

NOTE: My mention of "competition" may have some of the "tactical" guys going bonkers.

While I am fully aware that some organized shooting competitions can be at cross purpose

with self defense, I refer to competition between trainees as a way of inducing stress.

Edited by Retcop
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Northern Red doesn't do a lot of "fluff". They drill the basic fundamentals into you and then add application. They're pretty well versed in the weapon systems, especially since many of them were Delta.

 

This? https://northernredtraining.com

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My thought is for everyone to learn to shoot the weapons they choose for self defense

in as many different positions and in as many different environments as possible.

This includes when the weapon has malfunctioned, or the defender is injured. ...

 

That's all good advice. I should mention that I was also skeptical when I took my first pistol course, I didn't appreciate the value of holstering. Of course, I learned otherwise. (Subsequently I encountered two Sheriff's deputies at my front door on an errant alarm call in the middle of the night; I'm sure glad I had my loaded handgun in my holster instead of in my hand.)

 

I have no doubt that I have a lot to learn on the basics.

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