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molineaux

Why not support UBGC?

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I am an NRA life member and I have no issue with a federal not to mention state back ground check for all. I wish the NRA would guide it instead of fighting it. If they keep this up there will be no exception for family and gifts to family, and it will be a blanket BGC. Also there needs to be guidance as to making it federal law that any FFL holder must on demand do a BGC for anyone who asks within on hour of asking and a cap of 20 dollars or less on what they can charge. This will stop gouging of idiot FFL holders who don't want private sales. This does not stop private sales it just makes sure they are not felons. There are better hills to die on than no back ground checks.I have never heard of a good reason to fight this. They are going after magazines, guns that are semi autos and others.

 

We need to fight where it counts and this makes us look on the insane side. Florida just passed through Senate committee a BGC for gun shows and its run by Republicans. This is a fight that makes gun owners look unreasonable.  By helping guide the laws the NRA could only support no registry or records on gun owners.  Make private sales from non FFL to non FFL a NICs check only no paper work. The people who will break the law will break it regardless of what law is in place. This would make the pool of guns available to people who don't want to do a BGC even more limited. I have yet to hear an actual credible reason that UBGCs are a bad idea. To be honest Most of the people I sold a gun to FTF no anything I never got a bad feeling. But not many criminals look like Charlie Manson.  So if UBGCs are a bad idea than why not campaign to get rid of them for everyone? Eliminate the system?

 

Many gun owners want a wall on the southern border and strong laws on illegals but without a BGC for all sales an illegal can get a gun as easy as anyone. Even if you say well I ask for some kind of citizenship documentation well good for  you but that means crap because very few do. I have been at a lot of gun shows and had people solicit me as I walked by saying "Hey buddy no BGC on my table anything you want to buy you pay me the cash and walk out no questions asked". Once I was at a gun show about 150 miles from my home. I wanted to buy a Smith and Wesson for my wife and then thought that she should just buy it for her self and do the BGC. The guy at the next table must have thought there was an issue and said "if you want a gun no BGC I will sell you one". Will UBGCs stop crime, no, but it makes it harder to get a gun. Limiting the pool of guns available will help. I know some gun people are nuts and would like to see anyone walk into a store and buy a full auto no questions asked, like it was pre 34. Most reasonable people know this is not a good idea. Although I support a repeal of the 86 closing of the pool of legal autos.   Its been almost 90 years and this has kept legal full autos from being used in crimes to a great extent. Now how many full autos would be used in crimes if you could go on CL and link up and buy a full auto in any parking lot? This is not limited to full autos but also to suppressors. Very few legal suppressors are used in crimes, now think if you could show up at Lowes parking lot and buy any suppressor no questions asked how many would be used in crimes?

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Coming from a state where there are UBCs and gun crime remains rampant in the cities... I can tell you I do not support them AT ALL!

 

The government does not want to "restrict" dealers to force the background checks to be done.  You can throw that idea right out.

 

Wanna know whats happened since 2013 when Universal Background Checks went through in NY?

 

1) no gun crime reduction

2) people continue to do straw purchases, either with older guns and claim they were FTF sales before the law went through, or they claim they were stolen, or lost or........

3) gun shops jack prices of transfers so its hardly worth buying used.  Why save $25 bucks getting used vs buying new? so used gun TRADE IN values drop CONSIDERABLY

4) some gun shops refuse to do transfers if they have that gun on the shelf - trying to buy a used glock 19, I have 2 on the shelf, nope, I won't do the tranfer so you'll have to buy mine instead.

5) People start unintentionally breaking the law buy buying guns as presents. (and they get convicted as if they are hardened criminals).

6) remember how I said trade in values drop?  New gun values also rise.  Don't know why... but good luck in NY state finding any shop selling guns below the MSRP.  Most places you see MSRP and then the real, "street" price.  Not so in NY anymore....

 

You can talk about government forcing FFLs to do the transfers and putting caps on prices all you want, but in reality, the chances of that happening are just about nill...

 

so yeah, coming from somewhere with Universal checks....  I vote hell no!

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Because there's nothing in the 2nd Amendment that either requires or authorizes background checks of any kind.  "........... shall not be infringed."

 

Terry

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There is nothing in the second about any BGCs on any guns. So if its not in the second we should let guns be sold to anyone any age and no matter if they are are a known terrorist or criminal? This is why some look at gun owners as insane. Full auto by mail to anyone. How about nothing in the first about saying I am going to kill the president or I am going to slit my wife's throat and kill a bunch of 5 year olds while they play on the school play ground? The argument of not infringed means no laws is just sophomoric.

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31 minutes ago, captainbarred said:

Coming from a state where there are UBCs and gun crime remains rampant in the cities... I can tell you I do not support them AT ALL!

 

The government does not want to "restrict" dealers to force the background checks to be done.  You can throw that idea right out.

 

Wanna know whats happened since 2013 when Universal Background Checks went through in NY?

 

1) no gun crime reduction

2) people continue to do straw purchases, either with older guns and claim they were FTF sales before the law went through, or they claim they were stolen, or lost or........

3) gun shops jack prices of transfers so its hardly worth buying used.  Why save $25 bucks getting used vs buying new? so used gun TRADE IN values drop CONSIDERABLY

4) some gun shops refuse to do transfers if they have that gun on the shelf - trying to buy a used glock 19, I have 2 on the shelf, nope, I won't do the tranfer so you'll have to buy mine instead.

5) People start unintentionally breaking the law buy buying guns as presents. (and they get convicted as if they are hardened criminals).

6) remember how I said trade in values drop?  New gun values also rise.  Don't know why... but good luck in NY state finding any shop selling guns below the MSRP.  Most places you see MSRP and then the real, "street" price.  Not so in NY anymore....

 

You can talk about government forcing FFLs to do the transfers and putting caps on prices all you want, but in reality, the chances of that happening are just about nill...

 

so yeah, coming from somewhere with Universal checks....  I vote hell no!

I don't agree at all. If there is a law and you can turn someone in for not dong or gouging on a BGC that they can be investigated that would stop 99 percent of FFLs being idiots. Just like the government prosecuting gas stations gouging in emergency's. Before the law I saw gas stations and stores gouging every time there was a hurricane. Now you save your receipt and send it to the state AG and they get the snot knocked out of them. Now last time when Irma hit I did not see gouging. Not that is stops all of it but it does stop a lot. As far as crime goes, you can not say that this would show up on any kind of stats as to crime going down. There are stats that show banning all guns crime goes down and other that show it goes up. so to argue stats reminds me of the lies damn lies and statistics. I still have herd no reason why it would be a bad idea. The idea that used guns drop and new go up is bogus. Show me one study where this has happened.  Your arguments have  no basis in reality.

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Here’s an excerpt from what Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said in writing the majority opinion in the court’s 2008 Heller decision, striking down a D.C. law requiring trigger locks for handguns there:

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.

Scalia was hardly a liberal justice. He was a staunch supporter of the second.

Edited by molineaux

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16 minutes ago, molineaux said:

I don't agree at all. If there is a law and you can turn someone in for not dong or gouging on a BGC that they can be investigated that would stop 99 percent of FFLs being idiots. Just like the government prosecuting gas stations gouging in emergency's. Before the law I saw gas stations and stores gouging every time there was a hurricane. Now you save your receipt and send it to the state AG and they get the snot knocked out of them. Now last time when Irma hit I did not see gouging. Not that is stops all of it but it does stop a lot. As far as crime goes, you can not say that this would show up on any kind of stats as to crime going down. There are stats that show banning all guns crime goes down and other that show it goes up. so to argue stats reminds me of the lies damn lies and statistics. I still have herd no reason why it would be a bad idea. The idea that used guns drop and new go up is bogus. Show me one study where this has happened.  Your arguments have  no basis in reality.

Disagree all you want, but I have been watching it happen here for the past 6+ years...

 

.GOV cannot force any business to sell a product/service.

 

The original law as passed in NY, said FFLs needed to do the tranfers for a fixed price.  so they said, fine, then we just don't offer that service. - be kind of like an auto shop not offering inspections.  No autoshop wound do that because inspections is how they find problems to then make more money.  BGCs don't generally generate more money.  maybe ammo... maybe...  but prices of ammo are lower online so if the person is already buying used to save money....  you do the math.

 

So what local shops started doing is having "memberships"

 

You buy a $200 annual membership and they give you a 5% discount on ammo and a access to the $20 transfer fees.

 

Don't want an annual membership, OK, you can buy a week long trial membership for $40 + the fixed rate $20 transfer fee...

 

You get where this is going?

 

 

Again, disagree all you want... I HAVE BEEN WATCHING IT HAPPEN

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Sadly, 50 percent of people in this country are total idiots. Another 10 percent are totally crazy, drugged, drunk or all  three.

None of them should not be allowed to have cars, boats, guns, sharp tools or children.

 

I don't have the answer.

 

 

Matt

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4dP6eYo.jpg

 

Terry

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If gun control has taught any of us anything  it should be , the more constraints and obstacles put forth to legally obtain guns  is ; That Purchasing is  SEVERELY  affected  while crime continues RAMPANTLY even unchecked  and  in the case of New York  absolutely borders on the absurd  . It's akin too Calif. and it's Political homeless and under $1K  crime spree  liberal nonsense !.

 

 ONLY IDIOTS IE democraps believe they can control all ; Other political parties  aren't worthy of holding power or ideas beliefs or public offices  !.

If that's factual  then WHY are the City's with the MOST liberal democrap Gov. Senators and Representatives  having the largest % of GUN PROBLEMS as well as financial problems  !.

 

As Clint Eastwood said in a movie :  Your mouthwash ain't cutting it  Captain :thumbdown:

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Your argument is like saying making drunk driving illegal does not stop drunk driving. Its not well thought out as an argument and makes me think you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

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Nothing like feeding the old troll..............

 

Anybody that starts with "I am an NRA life member and I have no issue with a federal not to mention state back ground check for all"  is nothing more than a old FUDD trolling and as closed minded as the old man at the gun counter trying to sell a woman a pink ladies gun........

 

Criminals will get guns...no matter what, no background check will ever stop that and no matter how the laws are written all it does is make legal honest citizens criminals and makes it harder for them to defend themselves and buy weapons....

 

Anybody that thinks background checks deter criminals or keeps them from accessing guns is delusional......

 

Anybody tall enough with cash in hand that can walk into any shop that sells guns, look into the counter and verbalizes what they want to buy and can pay for it should be able....does not matter if you are 16 years old or 70 years old........if you can walk in, tell them you want that MP5SD and pay for it with a couple boxes of ammo, have at it...no questions asked.....does not matter if you walked right out of federal prison or before school & then took it to school......

 

We know gun free zones are shooting galleries...and that honest citizens are slaughtered.....as it's "illegal" to have guns and defend themselves, but yet the law does not stop criminals and evil people.....

 

This is how it should be to buy anything you want.....

 

 

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In my opinion, the ubgc mainly serve as a way to ensure the government knows where every firearm is when they decide to confiscate them. After a couple generations,  all firearms will have a 4473 attached to them.

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You sounds like that idiot Bloomberg.  

 

Tell you what, I’ll support universal background checks as soon as you get the dems to support universal voter ID.  The first thing out of their mouths will be “that infringes on the right to vote”.  Really? Show me were the Constitution says “the right of the people to vote will not be infringed”.  I can show you were it says that about the right to keep and bear arms.

 

Anybody that believes that UBCs actually work is also looking for oceanfront property in Kentucky.  The only way UBGs can even put a dent in so called “gun violence” is if you have 100% gun registration otherwise how do you know if there was a background check done with ownership changed? :doh: With more than 400 million guns in the US you know what will never be accurate, a 100% gun registry.  I have guns that have been through a half dozen hands since they were originally bought and were bought then before any background check.  So how does anybody know if I give it to my child or even a perfect stranger?

 

 

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8 hours ago, molineaux said:

Your argument is like saying making drunk driving illegal does not stop drunk driving. Its not well thought out as an argument and makes me think you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Here is the deal, take all of the shootings EVER and you have 1 of 2 possibilities, the shooter passed a background check or the shooter did not do a background check. 

 

Now tell me which of those 2 possibilities would be different if we had UBGC. I will wait. 

 

Chicago is a perfect example as we have both UBGC and a card, FOID, you have to apply for to get permission from the government to purchase or possess a firearm or ammunition. Getting caught with a firearm without an FOID and it is an instant felony. What's more, if you have a single round of ammunition in your possession and no FOID it is the exact same crime with the same exact punishment as having a firearm with no FOID. 

 

Now this is where it gets interesting, the democrats in Chicago won't enforce those laws. Cops make an arrest, lock the person up and the next day if not sooner the state's attorney refuses to prosecute and the shitbag walks out the door. But if you are a law abiding Citizen and your FOID expires, you will get a letter in the mail telling you to take your firearms to the nearest police station to legally dispose of them. Then they show up at your door asking where the guns are, with a warrant.

 

Did I mention the state is several months behind on issuing FOID's? To the tune of 60,000+ people currently unable to possess a firearm.

 

But the shitbags shooting up Chicago and the rest of the democrat controlled Illinois don't have to wait. 

 

 

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