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hlhneast

LR .308 Build

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I'm glad you are finding the components you need.

 

After it cools off a bit I'm going out to the workshop to swap the upper receivers around on my PA-10's uppers. A couple years ago I bought an upper from DTT or somebody like them and built a 6.5CM with a Palmetto stainless barrel. I had problems with getting the bolt to lock open on last round. I've been waiting (and waiting and wait....) for PSA to get stripped PA-10 upper receivers back in stock. 

 

Tired of waiting. Going to take the PSA receiver off the factory PSA .308 upper and swap it onto the 6.5CM. 

 

This is one of the big pitfalls of building AR-10 class ARs that I really hate.

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14 hours ago, Flesh Wound said:

I'm glad you are finding the components you need.

 

After it cools off a bit I'm going out to the workshop to swap the upper receivers around on my PA-10's uppers. A couple years ago I bought an upper from DTT or somebody like them and built a 6.5CM with a Palmetto stainless barrel. I had problems with getting the bolt to lock open on last round. I've been waiting (and waiting and wait....) for PSA to get stripped PA-10 upper receivers back in stock. 

 

Tired of waiting. Going to take the PSA receiver off the factory PSA .308 upper and swap it onto the 6.5CM. 

 

This is one of the big pitfalls of building AR-10 class ARs that I really hate.

Two things there.  I have read PSA recommends using only PSA parts on their rifles so I might call them and ask about what your trying to do. Second, Ive read where there may be issues with bolts and the 6.5 CM cartridge.  Do some research before you change up a lot of things.

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Well damn.  The lower I really wanted from Aero is now back in stock.  When it went NA I emailed AP and asked about them and was told it was a special edition and would not go back into production.  i ordered a regular M5 lower and forgot about the "Back in Stock" notification.  The question now is do I want to spend the extra $200, wait for shipping and a 24hr background check for what  I wanted originally or go ahead and build up the regular lower.  Yeah I could always build another large format like a 6.5CM, .260Rem or even a .243 but I had only planned on doing one large format rifle.

 

Since the last piece, the BCG is on the way, I will go ahead and build what I have I guess.  I really like this Liberty Edition lower.

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-stripped-lower-receiver-special-edition-liberty-anodized-black

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Knowing me I'd just buy it and set it back on the shelf for a future build. No matter what we buy there is always a shinier object that comes along right after we latch on the latest and greatest. It will be great to see how your build does. 

 

Parts shortages are a bear. I'm setting on some special run Armory lowers and a pair of DPMS lowers that I have no freaking idea where or when I got them.  I'm upper poor and when more hit the market soon I'll pick up another four or five., I have a lightweight Aero upper coming that has no FA or door that I am doing my 22 Conversion replacement on. The barrel arrives at TA today and the machinist is ready to spin it up for me.   I hope it shoots well as the general platform design of the conversion kit is very crude in my opinion.  If it wil do an inch at 50 I'll be happy. 

 

Keep us posted on your moment of desicion.

 

Greg

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On 8/23/2020 at 1:26 PM, GLShooter said:

Here is al teh scope you'll ever need. I run one on my 358 Norma Mag. Nice and small and perfect for your platform IMHO.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Leupold-0603-2015-170678-VX-3I-Riflex/dp/B018YKYGSE

 

Greg

I am liking this scope, Greg.  I cant find any info on which focal plane it is.  Second focal wouldnt be a deal killer but it would be nice to know which.  All the reviews look good and again Optics Planet seems to have the best price so far at $379.99 and free shipping.  I bought my Aero .308 BCG from them and received it Friday while I was out of town.  Its price with free shipping was again the lowest I found after a week of searching.  When OP can beat Amazon, you know its a good deal.  OP also offers an internal rebate of $38 for use on other products or something, I havent quite figured out that yet.  OP offers $38 OP bucks

 

Its odd, A VX3i 3.5X10X40, which I would consider a better scope is actually considerably less expensive, about $60 less.  Of course because of the bigger objective, its heavier and a bit longer that the 36mm.  Ive always thought, maybe erroneously, the bigger the objective, the more light transferred  Eye relief is about the same, I find the AR needs longer eye relief to keep the rear of the scope from interfering with the charging handle.

 

Still looking at all options.  I have everything now to build the rifle I dont know why I havent assembled it yet except no big rush at this point, Gun season starts November 7th so I still have time to do everything.  I am a famous foot dragger but usually the BRD counteracts it, lol.  It wont be long fellers and I will post up some pics.

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It is old school second plane. That's never hurt me in the hunting or target fields. 

 

Light transmission is a matter of lens coatings paired with the exit pupil. The exit pupil size is the objective size decided by the X power of the scope. A 50MM X 10X has an exit pupil of 5MM. A 50MM X 6X has an exit pupil of 8.33MM. The eye, on average, has a 7.1MM pupil. Anything less from the scope is 100% usable. Anything greater is a waste. Most variables will be overly large on the bottom end but perfectly fine at the top. 

 

The eye relief on that scope is plenty and that's why I run it on the 358 Norma Mag. It was recommended by the top metalsmith at Champlain Arms of Enid, Oklahoma. Bill was a big time elk hunter and swore by them.

 

Greg

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37 minutes ago, hlhneast said:

I am liking this scope, Greg.  I cant find any info on which focal plane it is.  Second focal wouldnt be a deal killer but it would be nice to know which.  All the reviews look good and again Optics Planet seems to have the best price so far at $379.99 and free shipping.  I bought my Aero .308 BCG from them and received it Friday while I was out of town.  Its price with free shipping was again the lowest I found after a week of searching.  When OP can beat Amazon, you know its a good deal.  OP also offers an internal rebate of $38 for use on other products or something, I havent quite figured out that yet.  OP offers $38 OP bucks

 

Its odd, A VX3i 3.5X10X40, which I would consider a better scope is actually considerably less expensive, about $60 less.  Of course because of the bigger objective, its heavier and a bit longer that the 36mm.  Ive always thought, maybe erroneously, the bigger the objective, the more light transferred  Eye relief is about the same, I find the AR needs longer eye relief to keep the rear of the scope from interfering with the charging handle.

 

Still looking at all options.  I have everything now to build the rifle I dont know why I havent assembled it yet except no big rush at this point, Gun season starts November 7th so I still have time to do everything.  I am a famous foot dragger but usually the BRD counteracts it, lol.  It wont be long fellers and I will post up some pics.

I read an article about Meopta scopes that some scope makers will put a large objective on a scope with a 30mm tube. Meopta is fitting a full size erector in a 30 mm tube.  just so they can claim better "light gathering" specs, but if you go to big, it can reduce clarity. 

Just thought I'd drive you nuts. They said anything between 38 and 44 should be good for such a scope, with 44 getting too big. 

Have you looked at Meopta ? Czech glass that some big names put their logo on. Don't know the prices at the lower end. 

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2 minutes ago, Retcop said:

I read an article about Meopta scopes that some scope makers will put a large objective on a scope with a 30mm tube. Meopta is fitting a full size erector in a 30 mm tube.  just so they can claim better "light gathering" specs, but if you go to big, it can reduce clarity. 

Just thought I'd drive you nuts. They said anything between 38 and 44 should be good for such a scope, with 44 getting too big. 

Have you looked at Meopta ? Czech glass that some big names put their logo on. Don't know the prices at the lower end. 

Ive never heard of Meopta but I will check them out.  Thanks John!

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15 minutes ago, Retcop said:

I read an article about Meopta scopes that some scope makers will put a large objective on a scope with a 30mm tube. Meopta is fitting a full size erector in a 30 mm tube.  just so they can claim better "light gathering" specs, but if you go to big, it can reduce clarity. 

Just thought I'd drive you nuts. They said anything between 38 and 44 should be good for such a scope, with 44 getting too big. 

Have you looked at Meopta ? Czech glass that some big names put their logo on. Don't know the prices at the lower end. 

 

Really the 30MM just gives gives you more adjustment. They say there is a tad more light but a top notch coating does wonder there.

 

MEOPTA is one of those sleeper brands that mooch along performing very well but don't have the street recognition. Very understated.  I've never used one but I would give one a whirl with no qualms.

 

Greg

 

BTW If you want huge dig up a 34MM tube..lol

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40 minutes ago, GLShooter said:

 

Really the 30MM just gives gives you more adjustment. They say there is a tad more light but a top notch coating does wonder there.

 

MEOPTA is one of those sleeper brands that mooch along performing very well but don't have the street recognition. Very understated.  I've never used one but I would give one a whirl with no qualms.

 

Greg

 

BTW If you want huge dig up a 34MM tube..lol

 

The thrust of this article about Meopta  is that the marketing departments of many brands will take a 28 or 30mm tube and slap huge objectives on them to increase the "light gathering specifications" especially on scopes aimed at the hunting market, but by doing so they are sacrificing clarity, for a little bit of light gathering, so Meopta's claim that the trend toward huge objectives on these size tubes is actually to the detriment of the overall performance of the scope. 

I would love to have the contacts to know which high end scopes are actually Meopta with the high end scope's name on it. 

IIRC, Meopta has been making optical glass and scopes in the Czech Republic (or whatever regime was in power at the time), since 1933.  not chinese junk.   With the popularity of driven hunts in Europe, I get the idea these guys have learned a thing or two over the centuries.  I would love to be able to check out their scopes in person, put then again, I am still evaluating these newfangled things like "scopes" for applications for self defense and hunting. They really seem to shine for what people commonly refer to as sniper work, or "overwatch" and also for hunting larger game, especially out West, and shooting varmints at long range.  

Personally, I am grateful for the brands that offer good quality and durable a scopes (many with transferable Lifetime Warranties) for those of us who can't or won't spend these large sums of money to own something like Nightforce, high end Leupold, and the other old established European brands I'm not going to look up the spelling for. More power to you if that is what you want/need and are willing to drop the cash.  There is a certain pride that comes from owning "the best", and there is additional confidence that comes with some of these names that is attached to extreme durability, proven by their Military service, and if you plan on falling down a mountainside anytime soon, and your main concern is that your rifle scope still functions. Very important if ISIS or the Portland Welcome Wagon folks are after you, or you are on the hunt of a lifetime.

I should clarify. From the hours of video watched, my preference for any of the Marxist Welcome Wagons across the country is going to be a holographic or red dot sight, or iron sights with a tritium front post, or considering some of the lack of forethought or tactics from the victims, possibly a couple of machetes with lanyard loops securely fastened...

 

I find America's delight in high magnification optics to be fascinating. Much of the interest in long range shooting (as many things in the firearms world) was the amazing things gun manufactureers were able to do with speicilized rifles that had un belivably talented men behind the triggers. I think we all has a bit of a sigh of relief when we discovered that not only had the Military maintined the link between generations of riflemen, they were actually able to preserve and bring back some of the folks who passed down that knowledge, along with all the technological advancements in optics, range finding, etc. 

 

The PRC boys helped push that envelope, but it's just not the same as learning the story behind the longest confirmed kills. 

The kind of stuff that really tickles me is stories like having to dust off and lube up the old stash of the M14 rifles to put the in the hands of DMR in Afganistan as a way to regain capability we had decided we no longer needed.  The complete chassis guns work better, of course, and then others stepped up with superior rifles with superior cartridges, along with the technology to consider the curvature and rotational speed of the Earth. Utterly amazing ! Yet there is still something about the photos of the DMR;s with their very dusty M14  rifles with the foam cheek pieces duct taped to the stock to bring their eye up to the scope. Man,  now that's a story.  IIRC most were using simple fixed 10X scopes, and getting the job done against those ragheads how would set up out of the effective range of our 5.56 rifles with their ancient 7.62 X 54R rifles and machine guns and have a field day with our boys. Thank God for air support. 

 

I can't wait to see some pics of your completed rifle. I think the 6.5 Grendel is an excellent choice, highlights the wisdom that bigger and badder is not always the best, and that the interesting rifles are the interesting ones, even if they are flinging pellets instead of bullets. I can't wait for the pic of the first whitetail you take with that rifle, and what the table look likes all dressed out.  A way cool project.  Thanks for sharing it with us. 

2 hours ago, GLShooter said:

It is old school second plane. That's never hurt me in the hunting or target fields. 

 

Light transmission is a matter of lens coatings paired with the exit pupil. The exit pupil size is the objective size decided by the X power of the scope. A 50MM X 10X has an exit pupil of 5MM. A 50MM X 6X has an exit pupil of 8.33MM. The eye, on average, has a 7.1MM pupil. Anything less from the scope is 100% usable. Anything greater is a waste. Most variables will be overly large on the bottom end but perfectly fine at the top. 

 

The eye relief on that scope is plenty and that's why I run it on the 358 Norma Mag. It was recommended by the top metalsmith at Champlain Arms of Enid, Oklahoma. Bill was a big time elk hunter and swore by them.

 

Greg

 

Spot on. Another thing I learned from the same article about Meopta and some makers slapping bigger objective lenses on their scopes, which basically sacrificed clarity for an improved "light gathering spec." 

But your testimony comes from actual experience, which is more valuable to the nth degree, but your post indicates that the  generations of Czechs at Meopta know what they are doing, and do not let the marketing boys interfere with the engineers and designers.  One comparison test they did was with spotting scopes. The Meopta barely came in second to a Swarovski

spotting scope as the best. Cost did not figure in the ratings. The cost of the Meopta ?  Half of what the Swarovski cost. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Meopta-Optika6-3-18x56-Z-Plex-Riflescope/dp/B08287D89B/ref=

 

https://www.amazon.com/Meopta-MeoPro-Optika6-3-18x50mm-Second/dp/B07S76Y5W2/r

 

https://www.amazon.com/Meopta-Optika6-2-5-15x44-Z-Plex-Riflescope/dp/B07S64Y7BG/re

 

https://www.dichrotech.com/

 

https://www.meopta.com/en/about/

 

OPTICS PLANET has some decent sales and some coupon codes on meopta. not alot of reviews on some models, as they seem to be a well hidden secret, IF they are as good as some people seem to think they are. IDK, never had my hands on won, but they just might be one of those sleeper brands who are doing it right, but have not caught fir yet.

Good Luck. 

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John it comes down to if you can't see it you can't hit it.  Based on the aim small shoot small proverb  higher X is good but when you have to drive up to Mt. Palomar for your next piece of class you have gone a brideg to far.

 

A little scope lore for the board. When Nikon started doing scopes they couldn't make the whole thing so they contracted with Leupold to build the tubes and Nikon did the glass.   At one time Tasco had a big run of target scopes 24X or so. They were IDENTICAL to the Weaver target scopes of the day.  I bet you dollars to donuts, I LOVE donuts, that Weaver was getting re-branded Tascos.

 

Greg

 

BTW as to the M14 comment I'll take one over an AR 10 everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.  When I lived out in the country that and a pair of 45's  was all I ever kept loaded in the house.   Luckily  for me I don't need the foam to get my eye up to scope height on mine.

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Thought I had my 308 build finished today. Put the upper on the lower and thought I was done. Shoulda known it wouldn’t be that easy. Discovered a fitment issue between my Aero Precision upper and the PSA bolt stop. The upper bears against the bolt stop and prevents it from moving at all. Looks like I’ll have to shave some material off the stop to get it to work. Dagnabbit! :cussing: It’s always something.

Before I start removing metal on the PSA bolt stop, I have another option I'm going to try first. If it works I'll give more detail later.

 

Terry

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I hope you get that sorted out. I gave up on trying to get other brands to play nice with my PA-10 lower. And since I cannot get a PSA stripped upper I've decided to just sell that dang PA-10. I could never get the bolt hold open to work. Done playing. Outta here.

 

Do report on how it works for you.

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On 10/12/2020 at 12:35 AM, Flesh Wound said:

I hope you get that sorted out. I gave up on trying to get other brands to play nice with my PA-10 lower. And since I cannot get a PSA stripped upper I've decided to just sell that dang PA-10. I could never get the bolt hold open to work. Done playing. Outta here.

 

Do report on how it works for you.

Like I mentioned before PSA stuff is almost proprietary.  The upper and lower receivers sometimes have fitment issue with other manufacturers.  Even the different Gens in the PSA line up are not aesthetically the same.  Function not affected they claim.  It makes it hard to build a rifle mismatching the U/L components and would drive a noOb crazy thinking he had screwed up buying separate.

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