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It’s About Time To Burn Louisville


Rampy
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58 minutes ago, MontanaLon said:

He was in fact a felon the moment he pulled that trigger. He has yet to be charged or convicted but the fact remains his firing that shot was a felony. 

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?  He wasn't even charged and currently as far as I have heard, no charges are even pending.

 

59 minutes ago, MontanaLon said:

1. You cannot act on what you "believe" legally, only what you know. He made an error of judgement and fired a shot at the police. How many cops have made "an error of judgement" and the mob has demanded their prosecution and in many cases gotten it?

Wrong in every way.  The whole idea behind self defense is based on what the individuals believes.

 

Quote

503.050 Use of physical force in self-protection -- Admissibility of evidence of prior acts of domestic violence and abuse.

  1. (1)  The use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when the defendant believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by the other person.

  2. (2)  The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious physical injury, kidnapping, sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat, felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055.

 

The idea that one "believes" they are in danger is exactly what gives an individual a defense in the use of deadly force.  You can never "know" what the future holds and therefore never use it as a reason for actions.    Now as far as I know he is still sticking to his "story" that they didn't hear the police even though the neighbors apparently did.  

 

Not defending the boyfriend just stating the facts.  

 

That being said there are questions.  If they were serving a warrant for Fed LEOs, why was there not even one fed LEO there?  I know its common for locals to help serve warrants in federal investigations but I have always been under the assumption that when that happened at least one rep from the federal agency would be involved with the execution.  

 

They had a no-knock, why did they knock.  As odd as it may sound, if they had carried out the no-knock then odds are she would still be alive today.

 

If Walker shot the police (not at, he hit one of them) why have the charges been dropped?  If they were serving a legal warrant, then he should be facing charges.  Not assault and battery but assault with a deadly weapon, attempted homicide of a LEO or what ever the equivalent is for KY.

 

According to the brief today the first officer through the door, after being shot, fired 6 rounds.  Officer #2 fired 16 rounds, including the one that killed Taylor.  These 22 rounds were fired from the doorway down a hall.  Officer #3, the one charged, fired 10 rounds through the window.  Of the 32 rounds that were fired, 3 went into adjoining apartment, 6 went into Taylor and the boy friend shooting at the cops caught all none of them.   Now I understand that when you are getting shot at is not the time when your skills are at their peak.  But somebody needs to raise the marksmanship standards, damn.  

 

Now the last thing I will say on this.  If anybody here were to be witness to an event that led down the path of us using deadly force with a firearm against another person, and we missed them and hit a bystander, our ass would be up shat's creek with no paddle.  Even to the point of defending my home and I had to fire and the round missed my target and went through a window and hit my neighbor snoozing in his lazy boy, I would at least be looking at a law suit large enough that I would never recover.    While I am very, very pro-police, why would the same standard not apply?  Maybe there is a good enough reason for it, but I would be very thankful for an explanation.  

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18 minutes ago, redbarron06 said:

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?  He wasn't even charged and currently as far as I have heard, no charges are even pending.

 

Wrong in every way.  The whole idea behind self defense is based on what the individuals believes.

 

 

The idea that one "believes" they are in danger is exactly what gives an individual a defense in the use of deadly force.  You can never "know" what the future holds and therefore never use it as a reason for actions.    Now as far as I know he is still sticking to his "story" that they didn't hear the police even though the neighbors apparently did.  

 

Not defending the boyfriend just stating the facts.  

 

That being said there are questions.  If they were serving a warrant for Fed LEOs, why was there not even one fed LEO there?  I know its common for locals to help serve warrants in federal investigations but I have always been under the assumption that when that happened at least one rep from the federal agency would be involved with the execution.  

 

They had a no-knock, why did they knock.  As odd as it may sound, if they had carried out the no-knock then odds are she would still be alive today.

 

If Walker shot the police (not at, he hit one of them) why have the charges been dropped?  If they were serving a legal warrant, then he should be facing charges.  Not assault and battery but assault with a deadly weapon, attempted homicide of a LEO or what ever the equivalent is for KY.

 

According to the brief today the first officer through the door, after being shot, fired 6 rounds.  Officer #2 fired 16 rounds, including the one that killed Taylor.  These 22 rounds were fired from the doorway down a hall.  Officer #3, the one charged, fired 10 rounds through the window.  Of the 32 rounds that were fired, 3 went into adjoining apartment, 6 went into Taylor and the boy friend shooting at the cops caught all none of them.   Now I understand that when you are getting shot at is not the time when your skills are at their peak.  But somebody needs to raise the marksmanship standards, damn.  

 

Now the last thing I will say on this.  If anybody here were to be witness to an event that led down the path of us using deadly force with a firearm against another person, and we missed them and hit a bystander, our ass would be up shat's creek with no paddle.  Even to the point of defending my home and I had to fire and the round missed my target and went through a window and hit my neighbor snoozing in his lazy boy, I would at least be looking at a law suit large enough that I would never recover.    While I am very, very pro-police, why would the same standard not apply?  Maybe there is a good enough reason for it, but I would be very thankful for an explanation.  

 

The boyfriend used the girlfriend as a shield.

I believe a citizen who was in the same situation would be tretaed the same if the person without the gun had been working in criminal conspiracy with the shooter.

They were both dope dealers. She had the choice to come to the door. She chose to wait next to her armed crime partner and ambush the police.

Both of this people were the target of a months long drug sales conspiracy, and she was recorded on a jail phone talking about moving his drugs for him.

I think there are some misconceptions about the boyfriend floating around here.

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In addition, all three of those cops lost their jobs and their pensions.

A citizen would maybe lose their CCW, and maybe be charged with reckless endangerment, like the one cop the decided was throwing rounds he did not have reason to throw.

I think you need to find examples of justified use of force, where an "innocent" was hit, and what penalties were involved.

This lady was not an "innocent". She was in a criminal conspiracy with her boyfriend, refused to answer the police and the warrant's demand to come to the door. She was on the warrant to.

If you want to look at her as a "hostage" when the cops shoot the innocent in a hostage situation, are they charged with murder.

Why don't you put the responsibility for the girl's death, on the boyfriend, who laid in ambush for the cops , and the girl, who watied with him, and had been selling dope with him for a long time.

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26 minutes ago, redbarron06 said:

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?  He wasn't even charged and currently as far as I have heard, no charges are even pending.

 

Wrong in every way.  The whole idea behind self defense is based on what the individuals believes.

 

 

The idea that one "believes" they are in danger is exactly what gives an individual a defense in the use of deadly force.  You can never "know" what the future holds and therefore never use it as a reason for actions.    Now as far as I know he is still sticking to his "story" that they didn't hear the police even though the neighbors apparently did.  

 

Not defending the boyfriend just stating the facts.  

 

That being said there are questions.  If they were serving a warrant for Fed LEOs, why was there not even one fed LEO there?  I know its common for locals to help serve warrants in federal investigations but I have always been under the assumption that when that happened at least one rep from the federal agency would be involved with the execution.  

 

They had a no-knock, why did they knock.  As odd as it may sound, if they had carried out the no-knock then odds are she would still be alive today.

 

If Walker shot the police (not at, he hit one of them) why have the charges been dropped?  If they were serving a legal warrant, then he should be facing charges.  Not assault and battery but assault with a deadly weapon, attempted homicide of a LEO or what ever the equivalent is for KY.

 

According to the brief today the first officer through the door, after being shot, fired 6 rounds.  Officer #2 fired 16 rounds, including the one that killed Taylor.  These 22 rounds were fired from the doorway down a hall.  Officer #3, the one charged, fired 10 rounds through the window.  Of the 32 rounds that were fired, 3 went into adjoining apartment, 6 went into Taylor and the boy friend shooting at the cops caught all none of them.   Now I understand that when you are getting shot at is not the time when your skills are at their peak.  But somebody needs to raise the marksmanship standards, damn.  

 

Now the last thing I will say on this.  If anybody here were to be witness to an event that led down the path of us using deadly force with a firearm against another person, and we missed them and hit a bystander, our ass would be up shat's creek with no paddle.  Even to the point of defending my home and I had to fire and the round missed my target and went through a window and hit my neighbor snoozing in his lazy boy, I would at least be looking at a law suit large enough that I would never recover.    While I am very, very pro-police, why would the same standard not apply?  Maybe there is a good enough reason for it, but I would be very thankful for an explanation.  

You know the term, "convicted felon" it is what denotes that someone who has committed a felony has been convicted. You know, otherwise convicted felon would be a redundant statement. 

 

And this is where you are wrong. Self defense isn't judged by what the person believes, at least not in court. It is what a "reasonable person" in the same situation would believe. I mean you can't say the neighbor is a purple headed alien who is anally probing you while you sleep and expect that "belief" to stand up to even the most cursory examination in court. No matter how much "you believe it". 

 

His belief was that the ex-boyfriend drug dealers was breaking in to cause him harm. That belief was mistaken and we've already got witness statements who said they knocked and announced before they broke the door down. A reasonable person isn't going to hear someone breaking down the door yelling "Police Search Warrant" and assume they are the girlfriends drug dealer ex boyfriend. It doesn't matter what he believed it matters what a reasonable person does. 

 

It wasn't a Federal Warrant, it was a state warrant signed by a state judge. And it wasn't a no-knock, it was a knock and announce. Which makes the whole claim of no knock warrants being abused kind of stupid. You know like when there is a shooting and the politicians immediately start talking assault weapons bans but the shooting was with a shotgun and there was 1 shot fired. Misinformation is how they roll. 

 

Politics, the same reason they do everything they do. The charges were dropped because politicians got involved and it looks bad to charge a criminal when you are trying to lynch cops.

 

I'd ask if you had ever engaged in a firefight while suffering from a femoral artery hit, or while dragging a buddy hit in the femoral artery to cover, but I know what you do and realize you may well have done that. But how many hits do you think you could get from covering fire? What amazes me about the whole thing is there isn't any video of any of it. The neighbor was aware the police were knocking, why didn't he get his phone out and do some video? But more importantly, if you have the apartment under video surveillance for months already. Where is the video from the time of the warrant execution? Hmmm. 

 

And there have been instances of "good samaritans" hitting innocents while engaging the criminal who haven't been charged. Why? Because the criminal catches that as a felony murder charge. Whether or not she was "innocent" if she thought that her ex-boyfriend was breaking in to "get her" why did she not seek cover or concealment? Hmmm. There is just a whole lot that doesn't add up. 

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18 minutes ago, Retcop said:

 

The boyfriend used the girlfriend as a shield.

I believe a citizen who was in the same situation would be tretaed the same if the person without the gun had been working in criminal conspiracy with the shooter.

They were both dope dealers. She had the choice to come to the door. She chose to wait next to her armed crime partner and ambush the police.

Both of this people were the target of a months long drug sales conspiracy, and she was recorded on a jail phone talking about moving his drugs for him.

I think there are some misconceptions about the boyfriend floating around here.

I think the misconceptions here are yours.  Walker had no criminal history and had never been in jail.  He had passed both a drug and background check and was about to start working for the USPS. You are confusing Walker with the ex-boyfriend.  

 

Now as far as him using her as a shield, according to the press briefing today's conducted by the KY ATTY General, when the 2 officers kicked the door in, Walker was standing at the end of the hall in a shooting stance with the weapon drawn and Taylor standing next to him according to the statements from both officers.  That statement is from both the officer that was shot, and the officer that fired the fatal shot into Taylor.

 

19 minutes ago, Retcop said:

In addition, all three of those cops lost their jobs and their pensions.

A citizen would maybe lose their CCW, and maybe be charged with reckless endangerment, like the one cop the decided was throwing rounds he did not have reason to throw.

I think you need to find examples of justified use of force, where an "innocent" was hit, and what penalties were involved.

 

“Even though a person is justified under this part in threatening or using force or deadly force against another, the justification afforded by this part is unavailable in a prosecution for harm to an innocent third person who is recklessly injured or recklessly killed by the use of such force.” See, Tennessee Code Annotated § 39-11-604.  Don't know about KY law but that is the law here.  Pretty sure it is the same in every state.  There is a reason that every firearms trainer in the US will tell you that there is a lawyer attached to every bullet in the magazine.

 

20 minutes ago, Retcop said:

This lady was not an "innocent". She was in a criminal conspiracy with her boyfriend, refused to answer the police and the warrant's demand to come to the door. She was on the warrant to.

If you want to look at her as a "hostage" when the cops shoot the innocent in a hostage situation, are they charged with murder.

Why don't you put the responsibility for the girl's death, on the boyfriend, who laid in ambush for the cops , and the girl, who watied with him, and had been selling dope with him for a long time.

 

When was she convicted and of what?  

 

I did not put her death on anybody, I simply asked the question.  You obviously dont have an answer, so you take the offense for what reason?   I guess you have evidence he was selling dope?  Hell then why dont you give it to the feds because they couldn't find any?  The boyfriend wasnt named in the warrant, they didn't find any dope in the house, in the car or on either of them.

 

If we have become a nation of "guilty until proven innocent" then all is lost and there is no recovery.  Hell we might as well walk down the street and just shoot everybody else that is walking down the streets too.

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6 minutes ago, MontanaLon said:

You know the term, "convicted felon" it is what denotes that someone who has committed a felony has been convicted. You know, otherwise convicted felon would be a redundant statement. 

 

It is a redundant statement because are not a felon until you are convicted.  

8 minutes ago, MontanaLon said:

And this is where you are wrong. Self defense isn't judged by what the person believes, at least not in court. It is what a "reasonable person" in the same situation would believe. I mean you can't say the neighbor is a purple headed alien who is anally probing you while you sleep and expect that "belief" to stand up to even the most cursory examination in court. No matter how much "you believe it". 

What I quoted was Kentucky Law, from Kentuckys website.  You have a different source, post it up.

16 minutes ago, MontanaLon said:

It wasn't a Federal Warrant, it was a state warrant signed by a state judge. And it wasn't a no-knock, it was a knock and announce. Which makes the whole claim of no knock warrants being abused kind of stupid. You know like when there is a shooting and the politicians immediately start talking assault weapons bans but the shooting was with a shotgun and there was 1 shot fired. Misinformation is how they roll. 

According to the KY AG today it was a federal warrant.  Maybe he was wrong, maybe I just heard it wrong but he clearly said that the 3 officers serving the warrant had no involvement in the investigation. 

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21 minutes ago, Rampy said:

For sure seems like enough to get a warrant but nothing really about what happened or what was admitted as evidence in the grand jury hearing.

23 minutes ago, Rampy said:

2 cops shot, 1 head shot and 1 chest shot from initial reports

Prayers go out to them and their families.  

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11 minutes ago, redbarron06 said:

For sure seems like enough to get a warrant but nothing really about what happened or what was admitted as evidence in the grand jury hearing.

Prayers go out to them and their families.  


 

Yep, it’s just the info used to get the no knock warrant & not what went down after...

 

 

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14 minutes ago, redbarron06 said:

It is a redundant statement because are not a felon until you are convicted.  

What I quoted was Kentucky Law, from Kentuckys website.  You have a different source, post it up.

According to the KY AG today it was a federal warrant.  Maybe he was wrong, maybe I just heard it wrong but he clearly said that the 3 officers serving the warrant had no involvement in the investigation. 

No involvement in the investigation meaning they weren't the lead detectives who put the case together, those cops were at the other addresses.

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32 minutes ago, redbarron06 said:

It is a redundant statement because are not a felon until you are convicted.  

What I quoted was Kentucky Law, from Kentuckys website.  You have a different source, post it up.

According to the KY AG today it was a federal warrant.  Maybe he was wrong, maybe I just heard it wrong but he clearly said that the 3 officers serving the warrant had no involvement in the investigation. 

The law may say that but the courts don't care what "you" believe. They work with the reasonable person beliefs as to what is the level of reasonable belief. Again it isn't enough for you to think someone is about to kill you, it is what a reasonable person believes. 

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24 minutes ago, MontanaLon said:

The law may say that but the courts don't care what "you" believe. They work with the reasonable person beliefs as to what is the level of reasonable belief. Again it isn't enough for you to think someone is about to kill you, it is what a reasonable person believes. 

It was enough to have a grand jury drop the charges in 2 minutes.

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