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srjdsmith

5.56 home def pistol

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The application is simple: home def- maneuverable, lighter, short range. What barrel length?
 

Too short comes with too many sacrifices in ballistic performance, I suppose. Will a 10.5” barrel be ok?
 

I have a brace and a sight, an upper, a lower, and, yes, I got a BCG before the panic buying started. Just short a barrel.

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10.5” feels about right to me. Room for a light and not so short you might grab it too far forward. Just my $0.02


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11.5" is better but 10.5" is fine. 11.5" gets you better dwell time. I built a 10.5" but that was because I wanted a cold hammer forged and chrome lined barrel and that length was available at the time.

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Add a forward blast deflector/muzzle device. It will help mitigate the concussion. Your rangemates will thank you.

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Anything short of a 10.3/10.5 in barrel and you are back into pistol caliber cartridge performance.......

 

Want shorter barrel, the 300 blackout was specifically designed around a 9 in barrel for CQB, taking out sentries, street lights/blast proof cameras and such.....as the 5.56 stinks in this.......

 

You can do anything with a full length 20 inch AR15, but it takes quality training and lots of learning & understanding of what you are trying to achieve....

 

SOLGW makes a 13.7 barrel that has a lifetime warranty, you shoot the barrel out, they will replace it.....free.....

 

 

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This one is 11.5"

LE05rQh.jpg

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This one's a 10.5".bc8dc49973539795f80ed515b4baaf8e.jpg

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This 10.5 looks sick


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It's all personal preference, but for "bumps in the night", I prefer a sidearm. 

 

If I have a mob at the house, I'll grab my "go to" with a 16" barrel and mags filled with 64 grain Gold Dots. 

I have more training with a sidearm than an AR, and in the confines of a home, and doing things like open doors, herding children, clearing a room, or dialing 911 if an intruder is present, I prefer to hold the sidearm closer in if I need to.  

Of course, if family members are not an issue, I have choices if I verify there is an intruder.  I can withdraw to one of my predetermined defensive positions with a long gun present, and get the cops on the way. I have been to too many trainings where a long gun can be grabbed, and then we are down to grappling and the techniques for "shooting someone off your gun".

 

Velocity loss in short barreled 5.56 caliber is not something I'm happy with. This is really only a problem if you are stuck using XM 183 or XM 855. While I have a decent amount of 5.56 Gold Dot my 'backstock" is the m183 and the 855, both of which are dependent on velocity for good terminal ballistics. Unlike the Military, the homeowner's ROE's are rarely to be able to "contaminate an area" under the threat is eliminated. 

 

Having said that, I am planning on building an AP pistol, but in my opinion ammo in these short barreled rifles is critical, along with the other factors I've mentioned. Depending on the ammo you have, and how short you go on the barrel, some of the Military style ammo does not reach the minimum velocity at the muzzle for reliable bullet fragmentation, bullet tumble, etc. which makes the 5.56 have such a reputation for good terminal ballistics. Of course, we were using much slower twists, which made the bullet less stable upon entering its target. We should remember that the Military went with the 1:7 twist simply so it would be effective with tracer round function. As bullet technology improved, Special Forces types (and civilians and cops) took advantage of heavier bullet weights, and "cheating with things like open tipped match style rounds which improved terminal ballistics. It was not just for kicks that the Marines held on to their 20" rifles for as long as they could. It is really THE barrel length minimum for the 5.56, and target shooters use even longer barrels. 

 

I keep a pair of electronic earpro where I sleep, but I doubt I'm going to take the time, or have the time to put them on. I willing to take the chance on (further) hearing damage when the life of myself or my Bride is concerned, or if the kids and grandkids are visiting. 

 

Since you asked, I would go with the shortest barrel possible and still have 100% reliability. If it does not go bang every single time you pull the trigger, Imo, it is worthless.  Since you are adding the length of a suppressor you are, Imho, increasing the odds of a wrestling match over your weapon, if your intent is to investigate nighttime bumps, it's up to you to decide how likely the odds of getting into an AR wrestling match with 9,5, 10.5, or 11.5, plus the length of the suppressor. The ammo you have available , as I said, is also critical with short barrels, as things like dwell time, extra wear and tear on the weapon, and such things like    

Using the proper ammunition is critical, as Rampy noted getting down to pistol cartridge performance, although I don't know if he is referring to the Military Ball ammo or the defensive ammo that used to be available. :laugh: 

As Short round alluded to, once they got the hacksaw out and started to experiment with barrel lengths, they ran into all kinds of trouble. I'm sure most of the bugs have been worked out by now, but remember our Troops are issued M4's with 14.5 inch barrels with carbine gas systems, which is harder on the gun, and leaves our troops "out distanced" so the ragheads have time to call in reinforcements. . High pressure is a beotch any way you look at it.  When you are looking at AR barrels, don't forget that the length specification includes the length of the cartridge. (There are lots of people walking around with compact semi-auto sidearms with 3 inch barrels in all kinds of calibers, since smaller is better is what is popular. So we have lots of folks using 9mm or .45 ACP snubbies that have only 2 inches of rifled barrel. The "compacts" like a G19 give you a whopping 3 inches of rifled barrel. Some times I shake my head and thing of a .38 +P or a .357 magnum that actually has 4 inches of rifled barrel in stead of 2. 

 

My motto is "Shoot what you like, and like what you shoot ! "     

In these days of shortage, you may have to dance with the one who brung ya. 

You want short ? Figure out the longest possible shot in your home, and then consider you personal skill with a sidearm. 

Still want short, effective sound suppression, better terminal ballistics, and that third point of contact ?   Happiness, thy name is 300 Blackout...

 

Please keep us posted on your project, and if you find any good barrels in stock, or without a wait time so that it will be delivered to our nursing home, please let us know ASAP.  

Most of all, good luck, have fun, and we love pictures.

What kind of can(s) do you have ? 

Take care

John

 

 

 

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BTW:   Nice heaters, guys !

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10.5 is the accepted minimum barrel length to get the ballistic benefits of the 5.56

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10.5 is the accepted minimum barrel length to get the ballistic benefits of the 5.56
I think the terminal ballistics are honestly pretty diminished. As I understand it, shorter than 10.5" and you start having exponentially more trouble making them run reliably.

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my set up is:

Areo Precision Upper Reciever
Faxon Firearms 11.5" Gunner, 5.56 NATO, Mid-Length
PSA 5.56 Nitride MPI Full-Auto Bolt Carrier Group
Ballistic Advantage Melonite Gas Tube, Midlength
Superlative Arms Bleed Off Adjustable Gas Block Set Screw .625" - Melonite
Midwest Industries AR-15 Free Float 1-Piece Handguard, 10.5 inch Combat Rail, Black
Arisaka Finger Stop | MLOK
Radian Weapons Raptor-LT Ambidextrous Charging Handle
Dead Air Keymount Flash Hider 1/2x28
Aero Precision Stripped Lower Receiver AR-15 - Gen 2
PSA Custom AR Single-Stage Drop-In Trigger, Curved Bow
AR15 MOE Lower Parts Kit Minus FCG
Bravo Company Manufacturing MIL-SPEC Carbine Stock Hardware Kit
SB Tactical SBA3
Troy Battle sights front and rear
Sig Sauer Romeo 5

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All good to know. Those two pistols above (Short_Round and oncewas) are kind of beautiful. I’d build one of them just for the fun of the build and shoot. So, here’s the background on my thinking:

a. I have a large stock and good variety of 5.56/.223 ammo and other rifles chambered that way- that‘s why I though 5.56 

b. I have a 16” rifle in my bedroom safe as well as a 9mm and a .45, both with night sights.

c. All things considered, I’d grab the .45 first- I practice the most with it (even though I try to give the AR and 9mm play time, too).

d. The carbine seems much more likely to get caught on things, get grabbed, be slower “swinging”, more awkward in close or confused situations... (Retcop’s concerns)

e. So, why not an AR, but in a better, more maneuverable size?

f. Blackout seems to be the “all things being equal” better choice (Rampy), but... ammo. I don’t have any other .300AAC, no dies. Also, no can. Yet.

 

But your caution about 5.56 answers my real question with: when/if I am able to do it, I’ll just go Blackout. I could shoot it subsonic and suppressed and won’t go deaf in a hallway, won’t lose as much situational awareness, can get decent performance in a shorter barrel. The operative phrase being “when/if”. There are barrels out there, and I have all the other parts. If I can get enough ammo to prove it, trust it, and keep it well fed, I’ll branch into a new caliber. In the meantime, I don’t feel cheated with a Glock 30s with night sights, that I shoot very well, and a 5.56 carbine with a light.

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My 11.5in 5.56 is suppressed with a DeadAir Nomad 30 and I shoot it all the time with out ear protection. Anyone that says they are loud must not have a very good suppressor. I have a 10.5in 300BLK that's suppressed with a DeadAir Sandman Ti and I shoot both subs and supers with it. But I also have more 5.56 so perfer to shoot it. I move the can between the 11.5 a 14.7 and a 16in but keep it on the 11.5in in the house just in case. 

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