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brigadier

10mm Auto in a full size rifle

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Hello. I was looking at the velocity of the Ak-47 and it's listed at around 2200, 2300fps. The AK-47 has a 17 inch barrel.

 

The Double Tap 135gr JHP shoots at 1600fps out of a 4.6 inch barrel. Looking at this, it has gotten my curiosity how fast this bullet would shoot out of a 16 inch barrel. It seams to me that you would be able to move a larger and heavier bullet from a smaller cartridge then the 7.62x39 and close to or the same velocity as the 7.62x39, in which case, you would be able to get equal or better performance out of a much smaller and lighter rifle.

 

Has anyone done any choreographing with this cartridge out of a long gun, or have the ability?

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I have load data from McNett that lists the 135 grain Nosler at 2022 fps. from a 10" T/C. (14.5 gr. 800X)

A 200 XTP grain bullets gets 1550 fps in the same barrel. (10 gr. 800X)

There is a point of diminishing returns on barrel length. I don't know what length that would be.

The data below came from another forum using 3 different barrel lengths.

Note that the 10" barrel T/C I listed above has higher velocities. While we don't know the exact load data for the below posted loads, it suggests that 18" T/C might be too long for max velocity.

I do have load data that pretty much matches the stock G20 barrel and 6" barrel length velocities.

 

From another site:

3-10mm barrel lengths using Mike Mcnett load data. Average velocities are:

135gr Nosler HP......

Stock 4.6" G20 1650fps

6" Barsto barrel Colt Delta Elite 1850fps

18.5" T/C Contender 2070fps

 

200gr Hornady XTP........

4.6" G20 1175fps

6" Colt DE 1300fps

18.5" T/C 1402fps

 

 

There are people on this forum who have the 16" G20 Mech-Tech conversion: http://www.mechtechsys.com/

Maybe they have chrono data.

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That's still very good, moving a 11gr heavier bullet at roughly 300fps slower. The difference in speed is less then the difference in bullet weight.

Edited by brigadier

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I have load data from McNett that lists the 135 grain Nosler at 2022 fps. from a 10" T/C. (14.5 gr. 800X)

A 200 XTP grain bullets gets 1550 fps in the same barrel. (10 gr. 800X)

There is a point of diminishing returns on barrel length. I don't know what length that would be.

The data below came from another forum using 3 different barrel lengths.

Note that the 10" barrel T/C I listed above has higher velocities. While we don't know the exact load data for the below posted loads, it suggests that 18" T/C might be too long for max velocity.

I do have load data that pretty much matches the stock G20 barrel and 6" barrel length velocities.

 

From another site:

3-10mm barrel lengths using Mike Mcnett load data. Average velocities are:

135gr Nosler HP......

Stock 4.6" G20 1650fps

6" Barsto barrel Colt Delta Elite 1850fps

18.5" T/C Contender 2070fps

 

200gr Hornady XTP........

4.6" G20 1175fps

6" Colt DE 1300fps

18.5" T/C 1402fps

 

 

There are people on this forum who have the 16" G20 Mech-Tech conversion: http://www.mechtechsys.com/

Maybe they have chrono data.

 

Let's face it. The 1400 fps velocity for the 200-grain bullet places the load on a par with the .41 Remington Magnum. While the 2070 fps velocity for the 135-grain JHP will only prove to be of use at ranges limited to 25 yards. Why? The frontal area will result in rapid velocity loss with lighter projectiles. At CQB ranges, this may prove to be advantageous. Upon closer scrutiny, however, the limited penetration that may result from such extreme velocities may hinder the efficacy of the ligher projectile.

 

Taos Glock: I have always wondered how the lighter of the 10mm's original bullet weights (170-grain) would fare from the 16-19 inch barrel length. Had you fired your "uber" Silvertip load through the 18.5" Contender barrel, I wonder how it would have perfomed... or did you?

 

Scott

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Let's face it. The 1400 fps velocity for the 200-grain bullet places the load on a par with the .41 Remington Magnum. While the 2070 fps velocity for the 135-grain JHP will only prove to be of use at ranges limited to 25 yards. Why? The frontal area will result in rapid velocity loss with lighter projectiles. At CQB ranges, this may prove to be advantageous. Upon closer scrutiny, however, the limited penetration that may result from such extreme velocities may hinder the efficacy of the ligher projectile.

 

Taos Glock: I have always wondered how the lighter of the 10mm's original bullet weights (170-grain) would fare from the 16-19 inch barrel length. Had you fired your "uber" Silvertip load through the 18.5" Contender barrel, I wonder how it would have perfomed... or did you?

 

Scott

 

 

Good point. I forgot about that.

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Isn't part of the problem you'd run into with this, is that handgun cartridges optimally are loaded with powders that best perform in.......handguns?

 

Wouldn't you need to completely rework your recipes, probably with entirely different powders, for the best performance to be found while firing through a rifle-length barrel?

 

Sam

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Yes, Sam. the original loads were made to perform at their peak in a 5" barrel. Some will perform better in barrels up to 9" long. Beyond that, we get to the point of diminishing returns. I believe that the 10mm Auto is the World's Best Submachinegun round. The reasons are obvious. peak performance in an 11" Thompson, or 8" H&K MP10 barrel were considered when the FBI first adopted the round. This is why the Federal 190-grain moderate load was created; to take advantage of the longer barrel, without generating too much "muzzle climb" when operating the Subgun in either the two-round burst or full automatic mode.

 

Scott

Edited by gunfan

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Taos Glock: I have always wondered how the lighter of the 10mm's original bullet weights (170-grain) would fare from the 16-19 inch barrel length. Had you fired your "uber" Silvertip load through the 18.5" Contender barrel, I wonder how it would have perfomed... or did you?

Scott

Unfortunately, no I do not any ST data for an 18" bbl. That data was from someone elses 10" (McNett) and 18" (unknown) I had saved in my notes..

Would be nice to have more data for these lengths.

The larger 170-230 10mm slugs would be great little sledgehammers in the long barrels.

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That would be nice... Would be cheaper to shoot also... Less Powder... I like it...

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I do not know what velocity you could achieve with a long barrel, but the size and shape of a 10mm bullet would make it terribly inaccurate at any significant distance. Added velocity and energy might have some small advantage at close quarters, but without accuracy it is just not worth my time.

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I do not know what velocity you could achieve with a long barrel, but the size and shape of a 10mm bullet would make it terribly inaccurate at any significant distance. Added velocity and energy might have some small advantage at close quarters, but without accuracy it is just not worth my time.

 

We hear of folks "shoot (g20) pistol at 100 + yards at steel" so I would think a carbine style 10mm like the Mech Teck would be a decent

CQBR... maybe out to 200 yards... Don't have one yet personally but would be very interested in hearing from anybody who actually owns one...

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I use the .400" Hornady 200grain XTP in a sabot for my 45 caliber Muzzle loaders, they have been accurate out to 150 yards. With the equivalent of Hodgdons 777 FFg to = 100grains of Black Powder this yeilds about 2080 fps @ the muzzle from my 29" barrel Winchester APEX.

 

This is a potent rifle combination and I have taken deer with it at 130 yards, with the bullet expending all its energy into the deer. I don't know if I would take deer size animals beyond 150 yards. I would think a pistol would be limited to 100 yards(this would be a stretch for a clean kill). Looking over some carbine data for the 10mm pistol cartridge load from the 16" barrel only achieves 1300 fps w/ 200grain bullet, 1500 fps w/180 grain bullet and 1670 fps for the 156 grain. These are adverages and can vary greatly, but were recorded from a AR Olympic Arms conversion posted at GlockTalk. Link click here;http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=918942

 

I too would like to see a rifle for 10mm but something on the order of the Ruger Semi-Auto or the Marlin Camp Rifle simular to the 45 caliber they made. Even a Marlin lever action would be nice. They would be light weight and short easy to carry back packing, or ATV carry.

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I have a uzi in 10mm Iwill be using heavily this summer.Iwill have to chronograph about 10-12 different ammunition types throught it. :tf:

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my 10mm ar is quite accurate at 100 yds. don't ask for specific measurements... but with my red dot i think i was getting at least 4" group at 100 yds. (I intend to put a scope on this summer to check its ability).

 

I've posted some 10mm velocities over at GlockTalk for mine and a couple other carbines

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my 10mm ar is quite accurate at 100 yds. don't ask for specific measurements... but with my red dot i think i was getting at least 4" group at 100 yds. (I intend to put a scope on this summer to check its ability).

 

I've posted some 10mm velocities over at GlockTalk for mine and a couple other carbines

 

 

WOW! A thousand pounds of energy out of an UZI.

 

 

I gots to get me one of Those! :flea:

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