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Pastor beaten and tazed by border ghestoppo


Oedipus Rex
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Uh? Did you listen to the story even as the guy told it?

 

He admitted the agent told him the dog got a hit. That should have been the end of the story, that shouldn't have started in the first place, there, not a fight that ended up getting him tazed. If indeed the Border Patrol agent fudged the dogs reaction which we only have the expert opinion of this guy on what the dogs call reaction would be and totally discarding without hesitation the actual dog handlers opinion, then his recourse at that point was no evidence found could be used against him and he could file for civil rights violation.

 

BTW, I don't know why they bothered to get the dog in the first place unless its like most check points and it was there anyway. As far as any reasonable person would be concerned, they had probable cause from the moment this guy refused to identify himself. That's what these check points is all about and the Agent would lose his job for letting folks through who didn't.

 

Instead of following the steps for proper due process, he started the incident by refusing to even answer simple questions, locking himself in his car, and then becoming antagonistic to the point he had to be forcibly removed. That's his own words.

 

So now I ask you as well, do you think its OK for people to pull up to our international borders and/or illegal alien check points refuse to identify themselves claiming 4th and 5th amendment then we just let them drive right through?

 

Or are we suppose to make exceptions for white Baptist Ministers since we couldn't if we wanted to because we don't know they are until after the fact because they refused to tell us?

 

This whole thing stinks of a Illegal Immigration support stunt.

 

What motive can anyone have other than that for not cooperating in the least bit? He totally admitted he didn't cooperate not even answering the simplest questions like who he was, citizenship, and where he's been. Yeah, that's what they ask at these check points.

 

So I'm some anti-constitution guy because I find it funny as hell some idiot, probably a illegal alien supporter, pulls into a check point looking for trouble then cries like a baby when he finds just what he was looking for.

 

Now tell me this all you all screaming civil rights violation, how many of you all would pull up to a immigration check point and simply roll up your windows and refuse to answer any questions? How many of you are surprised, be honest now, what happened after that?

 

Let me give you a hint, I wouldn't try this the next time you get pulled over, unless you want your own choreographed Utube video. :wink:

 

Tj

 

 

Maybe you saw a diffrent video...I saw the dogs did not hit. Now I will agree, if a LEO askes me for I.D. I will give it to him no matter what the situation. But I will not submit to a random search for no good reason, last I checked I do not live in a police state.

 

If a LEO askes for permission to search without probable cause but it is resonable and under my terms I would agree. I am not saying that searches should not be done, but they should be done correctly. And I agree this is one side of the story, if he refused to roll down his window and provide I.D. then he asked for the outcome.

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I do not have any comment on this story but there are some things in general that I have a problem with.

 

1. Police using dogs. A dog can not tell any one any thing. Using a dog is no different that a cop inventing probable cause and is just as corruptible.

2. Probable cause. A cop can make up probable cause.

 

Unless there is a crime committed I should never be pulled over or checked for compliance of any thing. If I am pulled over the offence committed should be the limit of our interaction.

 

That would be living in a FREE country.

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I do not have any comment on this story but there are some things in general that I have a problem with.

 

1. Police using dogs. A dog can not tell any one any thing. Using a dog is no different that a cop inventing probable cause and is just as corruptible.

2. Probable cause. A cop can make up probable cause.

 

Unless there is a crime committed I should never be pulled over or checked for compliance of any thing. If I am pulled over the offence committed should be the limit of our interaction.

 

That would be living in a FREE country.

 

You could get most of us to agree to that but then that's really another topic and probably a long one.

 

In this particular story, the Border Patrol aren't general LEOs but looking for illegal aliens. The dogs a nice side bar but really, the guy gave them probable cause the minute he refused to answer any questions. This was the first thing out of his mouth in the video and I knew that point and looking at his head where that video was going from there.

 

All this guy had to do was pull up, say US citizen, coming from San Diego, and no illegals hidden in my car and he would have been traveling on.

 

It really is as simple as do we want the Border Patrol catching illegal aliens or not?

 

If we do, then we should cooperate in that effort and asking someone a few simple questions really isn't much cooperation to ask.

 

Tj

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I do not have any comment on this story but there are some things in general that I have a problem with.

 

1. Police using dogs. A dog can not tell any one any thing. Using a dog is no different that a cop inventing probable cause and is just as corruptible.

2. Probable cause. A cop can make up probable cause.

 

Unless there is a crime committed I should never be pulled over or checked for compliance of any thing. If I am pulled over the offence committed should be the limit of our interaction.

 

That would be living in a FREE country.

 

 

Im going to give you the benifit of the doubt cause your new, but you really dont know dick about K9's in police work do you? A dog can tell you more than a partner who talks can. Belive me, I have worked with them on several occasions and know how good they can be. They are only as good and the trainer and there training is though. A good trainer can read is dog like a gun manual.

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Maybe you saw a diffrent video...I saw the dogs did not hit. Now I will agree, if a LEO askes me for I.D. I will give it to him no matter what the situation. But I will not submit to a random search for no good reason, last I checked I do not live in a police state.

 

If a LEO askes for permission to search without probable cause but it is resonable and under my terms I would agree. I am not saying that searches should not be done, but they should be done correctly. And I agree this is one side of the story, if he refused to roll down his window and provide I.D. then he asked for the outcome.

 

Watch it again. He says they told him the dog got a hit but he didn't hear the dog bark. If he believes it takes a dog to bark as the only indicator for a handler he's never been in an airport with dogs for they are specifically trained not to bark so as to not create panic. Coming into the country at JFK once, I watched Beagle identify everyone in line that was bringing fruits and vegetables in. Not only did it never bark but never made a mistake. As for smelling people in the trunks of a car, well its as simple if the guy, which he said had tools back there, then he's been in his trunk and it was him the dog smelled.

 

I'm not kidding, I watched this late at night and was laughing through the whole thing start to finish. I was worried, I would wake up my wife. He starts right out with I didn't answer any questions. When he got to the point I was holding my hands over my face and they tazered me for no reason, I was belly rolling. What do you think the Agents were saying to him once they got car door open? It wasn't a hard leap "Get out of the car". To me it was "Wow, I didn't get out of the car when ordered and got myself tazered" who would have thought that? lol

 

Then when he's so shocked that he actually went to jail, I was rolling again. Just what did he think was going to happen once the incident escalated to breaking his car window open, let alone having to tazer him? At that point, the Agents had no choice but charge him otherwise it is an admission their actions were unwarranted and the potential for a civil suit a certainty. At that point, it was a kid in the sand box throwing sand in a kids face then going whoops and not expecting the other kid to throw sand back.

 

The reason why I believe he thinks he's telling the truth is because had he consulted his lawyer instead of the girl telling him what to say in the video, he wouldn't have made half those comments. He undermined his case right from the start with his own mouth. Worse, its on Utube and he still has to go to court. It's I convicted myself on Utube.

 

I find it almost impossible that anyone is this naive. To be so. would mean he had to have never been pulled over in his life and never watched TV.

 

Tj

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It would be nice to know more about the story. The guy could have been more cooperative, but it seems the response was fairly harsh. I don't know. Maybe there aren't any good guys here on either side. :unsure:

 

Probably right.

 

Border Patrol agents are people too and creating this whole incident over nothing sure wouldn't have made them happy.

 

I use to see worse all the time in the 60s. Some anti-war protester would go up to some cop, call him a pig, spit in his face, and then have this shocked look when the cop would bang them over the head with a night stick. Yeah, I found the use of force excessive but then I guess I wasn't shocked that it was coming either.

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Some local station

 

Some other local station

 

looks like it's starting to show up, but there is still not a lot of information. it would seem as though this event did occur.

 

Oh man, color me surprised, NOT.

 

 

"He took his incident to the World Wide Web, in part, to broadcast his larger battle over the existence of Border Patrol checkpoints beyond the border."

 

No surprise his wife is an immigrant either.

 

The left gets a double hit on this one. They get to make both a point on illegal aliens and how we're losing our freedoms to catch them while pointing at this self proclaimed "Constitutionalist" as a WASP extremist.

 

Well maybe I'm a tad surprised it isn't all over the national news by now for it fits their agenda to a "T" and a tad surprised they let him set in that car for an hour holding up traffic.

 

BTW, I wish he had picked a damn insurance check point.

 

Tj

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BTW, I"m done with this one. The guys an admitted political activist against illegal immigration that was looking for an incident and created one.

 

For the record, I wish I had a Border Checkpoint in my county. I'd stop by once a week just to bring them coffee. :smartass:

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I do not have any comment on this story but there are some things in general that I have a problem with.

 

1. Police using dogs. A dog can not tell any one any thing. Using a dog is no different that a cop inventing probable cause and is just as corruptible.

 

WTF?

 

DOgs are HIGHLY trained and VERY hard to corrupt!

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WTF?

 

DOgs are HIGHLY trained and VERY hard to corrupt!

 

 

I'm not bashing dog or there ability's I’ve been around plenty of working dogs. What I’m saying is they can be misused and the "protected citizen" has no recourse in a court of law. It will be word against word and citizens never win that one

 

:innocent:

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BTW, I"m done with this one. The guys an admitted political activist against illegal immigration that was looking for an incident and created one.

 

For the record, I wish I had a Border Checkpoint in my county. I'd stop by once a week just to bring them coffee. :smartass:

 

TJ...for the record I do agree that this guy deserved to get arrested, all he probably had to do is comply. If his story is close to true and he didn't resist the use of force is excessive to say the least.

 

Where did you see he was an activist....you said he was against illegal immigration....aren't we all?? :laugh:

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Hey guys, I don't know if this has been posted yet, but here is another video of the Pastor actually going through a checkpoint.

 

The Pastor is completely belligerent about him being "detained" at a checkpoint. I think if he acted like he did in this video when he was tazed, I feel it was an appropriate action. Between a traffic jam forming behind him and his belligerence over being a constitutional martyr, I don't feel for his cause or the consequences he received.

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TJ...for the record I do agree that this guy deserved to get arrested, all he probably had to do is comply. If his story is close to true and he didn't resist the use of force is excessive to say the least.

 

Where did you see he was an activist....you said he was against illegal immigration....aren't we all?? :laugh:

 

Sorry about that. He is a illegal alien rights advocate that wants the check points removed. Its in the story Jred provided links to. His wife is an immigrant and this whole thing a stunt to promote his agenda of no check points.

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