sully 0 Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) TACTICAL CARBINE RIFLE August 19-20 Princeton MN SLR15 Rifles were recently featured as the SWAT Magazine March 2006 cover story. The Carbine Rifle is becoming more popular in the urban setting due to its great accuracy capabilities, and generally it is easier to shoot for most people due to its lack of recoil. This lack of recoil, combined with greater accuracy, make it a favorite among shooters. At the end of this course attendees will have confidence that they can shoot at something and hit it, and not be intimidated by recoil. Students will learn proper foundations, maintenance, employment, ammunition selection, mechanics and manipulation. This course is designed to hone basic fundamentals while teaching individual tactics and techniques. Movement shooting will be added and stressed. Students will deal with a multitude of different targets at varying distances, and learn to shoot from cover and concealment from twelve-plus different shooting positions. Multiple targets will challenge even the experienced operator. Proficiency will be stressed, as well as reloads, and malfunction clearing. Cost: $250 STUDENT MATERIALS: (Minimum Suggestion) 1. Tactical Carbine Rifle & 3-magazines (AR15/M16, Mini-14/30, HK’s, Etc) 2. 1000 rounds of Carbine Ammunition (minimum) 3. Handgun with holster & 200 rounds. Handgun Ammunition 4. Protective Ear and Eye Wear, Hat, Sun block, Rain Gear, Water, etc. CLASSROOM: Nomenclature and Functions. Sights and Sight Picture. Basic Maintenance and Advanced Maintenance. Basic Ballistic Issues RANGE: Fitting and Uses of the Sling. (single-point, 2-point, and 3-point) Three-Point Sling: Backpack Carry Suitcase Carry Tactical Carry: Low Muzzle Frontal High Muzzle Frontal Patrol Carry: Behind the Backup Weapon Left-hand & Right-hand Fitting Proper Fitting (tension) Military (Hasty) African (Weakside) Carry Explanation of Loading/Unloading, and Malfunctions. Backup Weapon Transitioning. Principles of Marksmanship: Stance & Grip Low Ready High Ready Presentation Mounting Sighting & Aiming Trigger Control & Follow Through Recovery & Breathing Single Fire Double Tap Hammer Fire Controlled Fire Fail to Stop Issues Firing Positions (strong & weak side): Hi-Lo Kneel / Hi-Lo Sitting / Reverse Kneeling Sitting Double Kneeling Hi-Lo Seated / Rice Patty Prone Prone Military Prone Cooper Rollover Roll up/Supine SBU (Seal Boat Unit) Prone Movement Shooting: Forward Slow/Med/Fast (3 types) Rearward Lateral (2 types) 360-degree engagements Distance Engagements (100-300yds range permitting). Extra, as time and range permits: 2-man tactics 2-4 man building clearing Fighting around vehicles, Low Light Tactics and Applications CQB. CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" Chief Instructor SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com Edited August 14, 2006 by sully Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jem375 Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Sully, glad to see you posting in the Mn forum beginning to believe everyone had moved to a different state...my question is?.. with that amount of ammo to bring along you are almost up to the cost of the course with just buying ammo since the cost has risen so much in the last year or so, and the ammo will cost close to $200 or more by itself, do you really have to shoot that much??....the course itself looks interesting but man you are talking close to $450-$500 now in cost...and edited to add that of course you will now have to buy another 1200 rounds of rifle and pistol to replenish your stash of ammo.... Edited July 18, 2006 by jem375 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sully 0 Posted July 17, 2006 We will go through at least 1000rds of rifle ammunition, sometimes a little more depending on the speed of the class. Yes we will shoot that much per person, as there is very little down time and lots of information to get across in two days. We theorize that the brain remembers in pictures by doing, so all information that is passed onto students is done by performing the skills and drills at hand. Ammunition costs are rising, and from what I am told are going to keep rising so my suggestion to everyone is to stock up now, even on reloading components. CY6 Greg Sullivan "Sully" Chief Instructor SLR15 Rifles TheDefensiveEdge.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jem375 Posted July 17, 2006 Well, that's true about ammo prices and most certainly true about even going higher..good luck with your class... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest rlds45s Posted July 20, 2006 What fascinates me is people do not realize what value there is hands on training right in our own back yard! Man this boggles my mind! Getting training in your own back yard, without incurring costs of travel, lodging, shipping ammo, and traveling with gun is an even greater value. Some shooting schools like TR in Oregon have gone to green ammo only. That drives up the costs of training, too! So, I really have to question people who belittle a course syllabus! More so those who question the methods. People of all walks of life learn by doing! Staying at a Holiday Inn Express is not sufficient nor is playing keyboard commando! Hands on training is the only way to learn! People have to come to any course of instruction with an open mind! I have not seen any instructor that makes as many accomodations as Sully and DE do! I think we are fortunate to not have to travel to NV, OR, AZ, or other parts of the US. Ammo is cheap! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jem375 Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) What fascinates me is people do not realize what value there is hands on training right in our own back yard! Man this boggles my mind! Getting training in your own back yard, without incurring costs of travel, lodging, shipping ammo, and traveling with gun is an even greater value. Some shooting schools like TR in Oregon have gone to green ammo only. That drives up the costs of training, too! So, I really have to question people who belittle a course syllabus! More so those who question the methods. People of all walks of life learn by doing! Staying at a Holiday Inn Express is not sufficient nor is playing keyboard commando! Hands on training is the only way to learn! People have to come to any course of instruction with an open mind! I have not seen any instructor that makes as many accomodations as Sully and DE do! I think we are fortunate to not have to travel to NV, OR, AZ, or other parts of the US. Ammo is cheap! ammo is cheap!.....not in this day and age and it is going to get worse...but, I guess if you need the training it's worth it to some people.... Edited July 20, 2006 by jem375 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest rlds45s Posted July 20, 2006 To each their own JEM375, but we all know that some people on various boards find fault with everything! They have no reason to rain on the parade, because they already think they know it all! And, we all know who we are talking about do not we? No one person can know it all! Nope Notta! Any skill set is perishable! If you do not practice you loose the skills! BTDT! And, nothing anyone can say changes that! I work in a field where I can see skill degredation in people! I know from where I speak! Shooting is a hobby! Just like fishing! And, geez with gas prices the way they are I bet there are comments on that! So, since we know that some people on the board practice keyboarding skills more then shooting skils so be it! It is not like you are paying their bills! Shooting is fun! Plinking is fun! Shooting Prairie Dogs is fun! Punching paper is fun! Learning is fun! Defensive shooting practice and instruction is fun! It is all about getting out and doing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Janitor 3 Posted July 20, 2006 ... but man you are talking close to $450-$500 now in cost...and edited to add that of course you will now have to buy another 1200 rounds of rifle and pistol to replenish your stash of ammo.... Hmmmm. Which is it? 1: Course costs $450-$500 because you had to pick up 1200 rounds of rifle/pistol ammo for it? 2: Course costs $450-$500 because you depleted your current stock to go take the course? 3: Course costs are $650-$750 because you have to buy 1200 rounds of ammo for the course and you've elected to buy yourself another 1200 rounds for your stash? rlds45s is right on with one point for sure. That we can get to such a high quality course locally is a huge advantage to us. Go to any of the other large schools like Gunsite or Thunder Ranch, and you'll use just as much ammo as with Sully's courses. It's just what it takes to get through the curriculum. Now add to the cost of the ammo, the cost of travel time, flight costs, & hotel. That, and I'll guess that tuition is more than $250 at one of those sites. Before you know it, you're in a $1k+ course and I'm not at all convinced that you'd get the opportunity to learn more. If you want to take a class, for those of us in the area this is actually a bargain. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jem375 Posted July 20, 2006 Hmmmm. Which is it? 1: Course costs $450-$500 because you had to pick up 1200 rounds of rifle/pistol ammo for it? 2: Course costs $450-$500 because you depleted your current stock to go take the course? 3: Course costs are $650-$750 because you have to buy 1200 rounds of ammo for the course and you've elected to buy yourself another 1200 rounds for your stash? rlds45s is right on with one point for sure. That we can get to such a high quality course locally is a huge advantage to us. Go to any of the other large schools like Gunsite or Thunder Ranch, and you'll use just as much ammo as with Sully's courses. It's just what it takes to get through the curriculum. Now add to the cost of the ammo, the cost of travel time, flight costs, & hotel. That, and I'll guess that tuition is more than $250 at one of those sites. Before you know it, you're in a $1k+ course and I'm not at all convinced that you'd get the opportunity to learn more. If you want to take a class, for those of us in the area this is actually a bargain. for me it would be #3 you mentioned because I like to replace what I shoot fairly soon...I have always stated that if people actually think they need to go through that kind of training, so be it. I have some doubts that I would ever use training like that in the first place, but this is my personal opinion and I know a lot of people like to play Rambo... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Janitor 3 Posted July 20, 2006 for me it would be #3 you mentioned because I like to replace what I shoot fairly soon...I have always stated that if people actually think they need to go through that kind of training, so be it. I have some doubts that I would ever use training like that in the first place, but this is my personal opinion and I know a lot of people like to play Rambo... Then you're counting the ammo needed for the course twice. If it were reasonable to say "I need ammo at home so I'll include that in the cost of the course" why stop at 1000 rounds? Pick up 5000 rounds and say the course cost you $1250 in ammo. Of course you realize that some folks would even call you Rambo for thinking you need a gun at all, right? All a matter of degrees man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jem375 Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) Not really, because you had to buy the ammo you would be using in the first place and then again to replenish...well anyway, it is a moot point and no doubt it is a good course for anyone interested in that kind of training. Edited July 20, 2006 by jem375 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Janitor 3 Posted July 20, 2006 Not really, because you had to buy the ammo you would be using in the first place and then again to replenish...well anyway, it is a moot point and no doubt it is a good course for anyone interested in that kind of training. You're still counting personal stash twice. You only bought it once for the course - replenishing is elective. Better yet - leave your stash the hec alone. That money was spent with no intention of going to the course. Now - buy 1000 rounds for the course as the seperate issue that it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jem375 Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) I see your point, but it is still a moot point for me with the price of ammo being what it is today...there is not much XM193 or Winchester Q3131A around these days, and I don't shoot Wolf except in AK's and SKS's and so I would have to go into my stash... Edited July 20, 2006 by jem375 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest rlds45s Posted July 20, 2006 See JEM375 you find fault with every thing! Since you are such key board literate why do not you go out broaden your horizons? Oh that is right, you have been offered free tuition once or twice just you would come out and strut your stuff! But, alas you did not take that offer up! Now, what kind of training do you belief is sufficient. What is does your CV have to brag about that you are all knowing and self taught? It would be fun to see you under the gun so to speak! I bet you might actually learn a thing or two! People who rain on other people's parades must have something to hide? It is not my fault you did not buy stuff while it was cheap! So, it would behove you to refrain from comments about things for which you know nothing about, and more so have notihng positive to say! Living life costs money! Quit keyboarding, and start shooting! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuinlanV 0 Posted July 20, 2006 (edited) Jem, it seems strange to be bothered by the amount of ammunition used at a class. Isn’t that the point of attending? Learning how to use your firearm better through instruction and practice? Weren’t you planning on shooting those 1200 rounds at some point anyway? Rising ammo prices have definitely caused me to use it up more constructively. Therefore, I would rather put it to use at class learning new things and practicing what I have already learned than shooting at a static range or plinking at junk. And I am certainly not going to let it deter me from enjoying my hobby. I own firearms to shoot them after all. As far as the training thing, we have been round and round about that subject more than enough. Some people want to take the classes to improve their shooting, some to learn how to protect themselves and loved ones, some come out just because it’s an enjoyable experience. EVERYONE that attends becomes a BETTER SHOOTER and has FUN doing it. Edited July 20, 2006 by QuinlanV Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
