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9x25 barrel showed up for my G20

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on Saturday. Planned on hitting the outdoor range today, but it's fricken raining in S. Ca., WTF? Anywho, the LW barrel looks great and my 15 rnd G20 mags hold 16 9x25 rounds. So my G20 becomes a 16+1 9x25. Should be fun!!

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Good luck the 9X25 is a special animal, be sure to examine your cases. This could give some indication of the chamber quality.

 

Best regards! :thumb:

 

p.s. if you aren't going to reload I could use some 9x25 brass to work up more load data with, which reminds me I need to get back to the bench to load somemore test rounds. :nt:

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I will be ordering mine for my G20 SF after a paycheck or two. I just ordered Dillon 9x25 reloading components for my Dillon 550B in preparation. I have a lot to learn. I just bought the equipment and haven't started reloading yet. I've been looking at discussions on the 9x25 Dillon for a while now. It intrigues me that it is flat shooting with only a 19.5 inch drop at 200 yards! I'm preparing for my own personal challenge to become proficient with the handgun out to the 200 yards of typical battle rifle range. The ballistics of the 9x25 Dillon look good for that, but I will have to find out IF I can become sufficiently skilled and IF the gun has the accuracy capabilities. I've been experimenting with and practicing my own grip technique that I'm refining for accuracy considering the how the pistol, hand and arm mass moves and can move off target even as the bullet is still traveling down the barrel because I suspect this can be key to accuracy at distances usually considered beyond pistol range. Aim is of course critical to accurate shooting at normal ranges, but pushing the range this far will also necessitate good technique regarding the recoil dynamics. My personal challenge is to achieve speed and battle rifle capabilities while traveling light and fast and leaving the battle rifle out! With that, I would be much lighter and still be carrying more rounds of ammunition. I laugh because, of all the compromises in packing gear, the last thing my friends would consider leaving out is the battle rifle though it makes sense to me -- that is IF I can make up the difference with skill and there are some indicators that I'm up to my own personal challenge though it will take a lot of dedication. It intrigues me that shooting less grains of lead while maintaining high energies with a necked down cartridge will reduce the weight packed or increase the rounds of ammunition that can be carried for the weight particularly since the brass and powder contributes least to the weight of cartridges.

 

I've also considered the 10mm round for this project. Even the Glock 20 SF just as it is with premium ammunition would be getting up in power and velocity that perhaps gets me close enough to battle rifle capabilities. I have the IGB Austria 16" carbine conversion barrel for my Glock 20 SF and shoot it without noticing the difference except for holstering though that is significant and might prompt me to design a front release holster. This barrel is surprisingly lightweight. Perhaps with some custom reloading with slower burning rifle powder, the 10mm cartridge in my Glock with a 16 inch barrel will give me a good combination of power and velocity for the goal of being a substitute to the battle rifle for traveling light and fast. It's part of the same project, but I'm thinking the Dillon 9x25 with the 6 inch barrel might have the best combination of advantages.

 

Be prepared, be very prepared :)

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Well I loaded a few more 9x25 rounds to test out more powder combinations with using the Zero bullets 121 gr JHP 0.356". Winchester 296, Hodgdons H-110, Power Pistol, Accurate Arm AA#7 and AA#9. I have run some of these before but still looking at other loads. Also now I can test in the Glock -29 with a LWD conversion as well as my S&W1006 with the Bar-Sto conversion too. This round does perform better with longer barreled pistols and should do well in carbine lengths.

 

I will say that the Dillon Sizer Die is great but it doesn't size as tight as my RCBS 10mm carbide die...how do I know this? I have a Lyman 10mm cartridge gauge and if the cases are sized in just the Dillon sizer not all of them pass the gauge test (10mm used range brass of various manufacture).

BTW that LWD conversion barrel is a fairly tight chamber with specs slightly more open than the cartridge gauge. One thing to keep in mind is that the adjustment of the Dillon sizer die is crucial to provide proper head spacing...too deep and they go to deep into the chamber, too short and they don't go deep enough in the chamber. So take your time with setting up this die and I would suggest a good locking ring to maintain the set. I use my RCBS 9mm expander die to straighten/true up the case mouths and flair if I use cast bullets, so keep that in mind if you have any troubles seating your bullets.

 

I hope to get out soon to run some over the chronograph and report back!

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I was wondering about forming the Dillon 9x25 in just one step and if it is producing distortions then perhaps it should be multiple step forming? I read this 17-357 RG article that is a much more extreme version of what we are doing and on that particular page, it shows a multiple forming process and the rest of the other pages show the entire project. I know pressures would go up sharply for something like this based on a 10mm case, but perhaps a far safer and maybe better way might be a saboted bullet in a 10mm case. I might do some experimenting with custom made 10mm sabots. The variety of specialized bullets that I can load with sabots intrigues me.

I hope the Dillon 9x25 with the Lone Wolf Distributors six inch conversion barrel for my Glock 20 SF proves to be what I seek for distance shooting because I know I would be tempted to get deep into custom projects to seek a flat shooting powerful cartridge for my pistol that would be advantageous for long range shooting.

I've ordered the Dillon dies, but do you think I should buy the RCBS dies for the tighter Lone Wolf chamber?

I might have insights though I have no reloading and case forming experience, but I read a lot and I'm very experienced as a machinist albeit without any forming experiences.

I tend to agree that there are long barrel advantages for this cartridge. I also note that there is less efficiency with necked down cartridges and diminishing returns as well as complexity in getting components and tooling that might need to be custom made at a greater expense than what can be ordered off the shelf which I prefer rather than going into something new.

Perhaps my 10mm IGB sixteen inch barrel for my Glock 20SF might be the answer I seek for distance shooting or maybe if shooting a special 10mm loading with slower burning powder selected for the longer barrel or even a saboted slender bullet of high sectional density and superior ballistic coefficient might really have an advantage. I have concerns that any unevenness in sabot breakaway dynamics might produce inaccuracy by deflection particularly for long distance shooting. But, if it isn't bad, I wonder if a custom 10mm barrel with a different twist rate of rifling might improve accuracy. I'm willing to try a few things.

I'm going to try these Barnes Bullets.

Thanks for the discussion. I encourage anyone with any insights into any of this to post their thoughts.

Ronald H Levine
Sandy, Utah

PS: While you test and chronograph, if lighting allows, then please also have someone notice (without any extra shots for this) if one or another produces more or less muzzle flash with particular attention to brightness and color. Thanks for your answer to my post on the other topic in our group: Low Flash.

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Ronald, don't let me discourage you any with this 9x25 project. I was just pointing out some of the things I have seen and experienced using 10mm cases and forming them. The Dillon die does do the sizing in one step. But you may want to keep some of my tips avalible if you experience any problems.

 

There was a cartridge which never caught on much, called the "224BOZ" that took the 10mm case necked it down to 0.223". This was also an interesting round, but I haven't seen any barrels or dies for it produced for retail sales.

 

Good luck and I'll be looking for you to report back with your info. :thumb:

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I'm not easily discouraged -- the impossible means it takes a little longer. I've been reading a lot about the .224 BOZ and that it would need a custom barrel is one reason I was thinking sabots.

 

The .224 BOZ looks so promising that market demand should make it common. Here is an example in this article of how that can happen: This new Les Baer cartridge ‘looks’ exactly like the 6.5 Grendel. But, in the case of the .224 BOZ, which is not going anywhere with the designer who specifically wants to keep it away from the civilian market, I'm tempted to make it available myself by commissioning a small production run of G20 conversion barrels for it and just change the taper to fit some commonly available rifle dies for a rifle cartridge neck.

 

But, interesting possibilities exist when using sabots in the 10mm. I've practiced rapid magazine changes, so I could easily change the magazine to change from 10mm to a saboited .224 and can choose from great varieties for specific applications. I'm sure I can fine tune the shape of a sabot to feed well. Even if there are accuracy issues at first, I think I might make some design variations that change the separation dynamics to fine tune a design to gives the best accuracy. I suppose the key question to determine the usefulness would be the question of loss of accuracy when the sabot separates very early in flight. I don't know the answer, but I suspect it is accurate or it wouldn't be so popular and I could get a good hint of the answer by reading some forums on muzzloaders which also intrigues me because I like the idea of that one that uses smokeless powder and I like the idea in another one that uses electronic ignition with no dependency on primers.

 

I'm glad to hear the 9x25 case forming works well without multiple dies. I will have to learn what you mean about straightening and truing case mouths.

 

Ronald :)

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Ronald, I only have the Dillon 9x25 sizer die, seater die and crimp die...I don't have the Dillon powder thru expander die, so I use the RCBS 9mm expander to do the neck work needed to expand enough to accept either jacketed or cast bullets. These have been a labor of love to produce them and shoot them.

 

A word about the sabots...they need to grip the bullet tightly in the rifling but need to be shed as soon as possible after they leave the bore as not to upset the spinning bullet. They need to have a tough base able to withstand the heat and pressure so they don't blow thru them. I use some in my Muzzle loaders which are 45cal and hold a 10mm/40 cal bullet. I took a deer last year with a 200gr XTP from mine. There was talk of doing the sabots for 10mm at one time and it should be able to work.

 

There are many possibilites using sabots and that is interesting also, not having to change anything, just load and shoot.

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I haven't even looked in the Dillon box, yet. But, perhaps the Dillon powder thru expander die is that other item that is on back order that costs over $100 which confused me because I saw three dies for 9x25 go into the box. I didn't ask because I'm confident the Dillon dealer knows what I want and he had other customers.

 

That's what I like about the sabot, too. I figure I will make it a tight fit on the bullet, so the bullet can't slip and not spin with the rifling. I can precision machine it out of Nylon or maybe even Delrin rod. I can even use the tipped pointy hunting bullets! ... or anything!

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Ronald wrote:

perhaps the Dillon powder thru expander die is that other item that is on back order that costs over $100

 

That is possible, the other thing is the 10mm/40S&W shell plate, but more than likely the powder thru expander kit for the 9x25.

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I have the shell plate and it didn't cost much. I might even have it twice because I have one to load .40 S&W and 10mm and might have got another one by mistake when later asking for what I need to also load 9x25 Dillon. I was wondering why the Dillon powder thru expander die would cost so much. Maybe when it arrives, I will see something fancy with carbide.

 

I still don't have anything for case sizing. I don't know what type I want. Dillon makes one that goes on the 550B. But, perhaps since I might have lots of projects and being a machinist, I might favor one, if one exists, that is based on a small lathe. It would be much more expensive which is fine because I can put it to good use with the skills I already have. It would be nice if it could use case collets, if such a thing exists, because that would also allow accurizing case concentricity and perhaps roll forming necks and I can experiment with custom sabots to fit bullets smaller than 10mm.

 

I might be able to setup for loading new brass Friday or this weekend, so it would be good to read something more before then. I don't have my Dillon 9x25 barrel yet, so I will probably reload 10mm first and wait to form some 10mm cases for Dillon 9x25 until I at least buy the barrel. I don't have any cartridge gauges and though I know I can get them, my Dillon dealer didn't sell me any or suggest them. It would seem to be useful to have one for a necked down rifle cartridge, but since I can easily remove a barrel from the Glock, I wonder if I should just use the Dillon 9x25 Lone Wolf barrel loose in my hand as a chamber gauge because that would be easy to do and would be exactly the chamber that would chamber the cartridges I will shoot while a chamber gauge would only be an approximation of it. I don't know how to use one yet, but my guess is that the brass would be flush with the back face when the case mouth or the shoulder touches. I don't know how to know which touches first from any reloading information, but from my machinist background, I would use prussian blue or smoke soot with some rotation to see which produces a shiny spot first on an empty case. I have the Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook and the Dillon online manual that I printed from the internet. I suppose I will see how things work with the Dillon 550B as I set it up, but it seems like I can be reading up on it in something that gives me more a sense of what I'm about to do for the first time. I'm meticulous, so I know there won't be any dangerous errors, but it still seems like I can benefit from the experience of others in a good book. I have a few questions like how tight do I want my crimp? Any book recommendations?

 

I also don't have the benefit of being able to shoot near home, so I wonder if it might be a good idea to create a portable reloading bench to take it to where I can shoot outdoors and work up a load as I test them right there?

 

The custom sabot idea intrigues me even more now because I'm thinking it might even lead to better ballistics by enabling me to use rifle bullets of high sectional density and very good ballistic coefficients in my Glock 20SF without even regard to shape for engagement with rifling. I'm also imagining a sabot design that would likely start to open and release the bullet even before it entirely leaves the barrel which might be the key to no sabot deflection for better accuracy. :)

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I little off topic (I guess a sub-topic)...check out http://www.brianenos.com/ he has several spreadsheets posted that helps you determine what you need for the Dillon presses...keeps you from ordering duplicate components...

Edited by winn442

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... The .224 BOZ looks so promising that market demand should make it common. Here is an example in this article of how that can happen: This new Les Baer cartridge ‘looks’ exactly like the 6.5 Grendel. But, in the case of the .224 BOZ, which is not going anywhere with the designer who specifically wants to keep it away from the civilian market, I'm tempted to make it available myself by commissioning a small production run of G20 conversion barrels for it and just change the taper to fit some commonly available rifle dies for a rifle cartridge neck. ...

 

Ronald :)

 

I have more to say about this now. I heard about GUNPAL on Tom Gresham's GunTalk Radio on Sun, 4 April 2010 and was very impressed that this is an important needed service to gun owners particularly since PayPal is anti-gun, so in the same way and for the same reasons, someone might want to do similarly with the .224 BOZ and I present the link to show that it can be done as it was done with creating GunPal to do what PayPal does yet refuses to do for the firearms market.

 

Guests Ben Cannon, CEO and Creator, Gunpal.com

 

If someone produces their version of the .224 BOZ by using their design with a different angle, then I will be a customer for that and the conversion barrel makers.

 

Political activist fighter for our gun rights,

 

Ronald H Levine :)

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