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outrider

Is 10mm 'a poor stopper'?

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Hell, its bad enough that in my state Im supposed to retreat in my OWN house before I can defend myself!

 

 

Count your lucky stars you don't live in my state, Ca.

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Hmm I think this is a really poor choice of self defense tactics and are setting yourself up for some serious trouble if you can pull it off.

 

First, the majority if not all firearms instructors and training institutes are going to instruct you to aim for center of mass, some more specifically the triangle....left right nipple throat. Second the head is a relatively small object, constantly moving....if you have time to take aim and pull of a head shot then this begs the question of how much danger were you really in to begin with?

 

A head shot looks really ugly for defense purposes in court for the obvious reasons I stated.....now if you manage to shoot the guy 2 or 3 times and one happens to strike him in the head, might be a different story....place one right in the head and thats it and people will start to wonder if that was defense or execution. With todays media and the general attitude towards gun ownership I wouldn't be trying any hollywood shots to defend myself or my family. I have to take into consideration whos going to take care of my kids if daddy goes off to jail because hes a gun toting cold hearted killer that shot a perp in the head. Hell, its bad enough that in my state Im supposed to retreat in my OWN house before I can defend myself!

 

Actually I would like a police sharpshooter or military sniper to step in and shed some light on that subject.....I think the situation at hand will dictate what type of shot they will take. From the documenteries I've seen on tv they do not always take a headshot.

 

ctkelly:

 

Our department trains for the possibility of an offender wearing body armor: Two shots to the chest and one to the head is the drill. If deadly force is legally justified, it does not matter where the bullet strikes on the intended target. I say "intended" target because we don't want to miss and hit a citizen. Yes, a head shot is hard to hit, but if you are legally justified in using deadly force to stop the threat, it doesn't matter if you hit the head or not. I would not worry about that at all.

 

As far as using the 10mm is concerned, I use a 10mm Wilson CQB pistol with Double Tap 180 JHPs in my gun. I am not worried about its "lack" of stopping power or "risk" of overpenetration. I do know that if I use that gun/ammo combination, I feel it is the best available for my needs.

TAKJR

Edited by TAKJR

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Well, I too carry the 10mm in a Glock 20 or 29, which ever fits the purpose that day. I also carry a .45acp for close up work if needed via a shoulder rig, works great while in the vehicles. I figure I have the best of both worlds in those 2 calibers.

 

Hmmmmmm....

 

Likes the .357 Sig, does he? :laugh:

 

But that's good stuff -- and the sort of stuff I was looking for....Thanks, CT!

 

Actually, I'd probably go with a .357 SIG before I ever went the .40 route -- unless it were in a S&W 610.

 

Truth is, I've never especially liked the .40 -- and still don't.

 

I'd take one if I had to -- but doubt I'd ever choose one.

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1 shot stop's with a handgun are a pipe dream . Yes they happen but not often enough to rely on . There for no matter the Caliber , shoot till the threat is down on the ground and dead .

 

Face shooting works and needs to be practiced .

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The 10mm is NOT a "poor" stopper. Improper shot placement makes "stopping the threat" increasingly difficult. NO handgun round is a "good" stopper. No such animal exists!

 

Scott

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The 10mm is NOT a "poor" stopper. Improper shot placement makes "stopping the threat" increasingly difficult. NO handgun round is a "good" stopper. No such animal exists!

 

Scott

 

That's why all handguns are considered primarily as "defensive" weapons by all the world's militaries. They are at best a stop-gap firearm, originally issued to officers and NCO's for personal protection; and later authorized for specialized users where weight and size factors limit carry options: aircrews, armored units, artillery units, security personnel, and special forces to name a few. In some ways, the pistol also conferred an aire of "authority" merely as an accoutrement to an officer's battle dress. The carbine was an outgrowth of this same martial reasoning, and seemed to be a viable alternative to this dilemma. The submachinegun also suffered from using an autopistol round, with limited effectiveness, even in full-auto mode. Thus, the Germans sought a selective-fire weapon (sturmgewehr ), firing an intermediate, and more powerful proprietary cartridge, that would effectively supplant the subgun.

Edited by Zephyr One/Zero

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That's why all handguns are considered primarily as "defensive" weapons by all the world's militaries. They are at best a stop-gap firearm, originally issued to officers and NCO's for personal protection; and later authorized for specialized users where weight and size factors limit carry options: aircrews, armored units, artillery units, security personnel, and special forces to name a few. In some ways, the pistol also conferred an aire of "authority" merely as an accoutrement to an officer's battle dress. The carbine was an outgrowth of this same martial reasoning, and seemed to be a viable alternative to this dilemma. The submachinegun also suffered from using an autopistol round, with limited effectiveness, even in full-auto mode. Thus, the Germans sought a selective-fire weapon (sturmgewehr), firing an intermediate, and more powerful proprietary cartridge, that would effectively supplant the subgun.

 

An EXCELLENT analysis, as always! The 10mm Auto in its "original" load(s) (170-grain JHP @ 1400 fps and 200 grain FMJ @ 1200 fps, BOTH velocities achieved from a 5" barrel) are just about as effective as one can get from an autoloading pistol.

 

For the life of me, I can't seem to understand why the U.S. Military DIDN'T adopt the 10mm as its primary sidearm cartridge. (All political considerations aside, of course.)

 

Scott

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An EXCELLENT analysis, as always! The 10mm Auto in its "original" load(s) (170-grain JHP @ 1400 fps and 200 grain FMJ @ 1200 fps, BOTH velocities achieved from a 5" barrel) are just about as effective as one can get from an autoloading pistol.

 

For the life of me, I can't seem to understand why the U.S. Military DIDN'T adopt the 10mm as its primary sidearm cartridge. (All political considerations aside, of course.)

 

Scott

Because it is not about winning, it is about money and politics. The U.S. wanted to put a missile shield in Italy, the only way to do that was give the Beretta family the handgun contract. That is why you have the 9 instead of the 45. Remember old world money and special interest groups control politicians. Another example is the M14 and M16. Sec of defense McNamra gave Stoner the contract. His pockets were fat when he left office. They do not care about the troops.

Edited by sgtbones

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this crap is so silly. Oh, so a 10mm goes through and through, so a 9 is better?

WTF is that about?

 

You give me ANY of these rounds in a HD or self defense situation:

 

9mm

10mm

357 mag

44mag

45acp

.40

 

and I will be confident in my chances of putting a perp down.

 

The caliber wars are just a bunch of jerking off.

 

Amen, Brother Dave.

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Hit'em with the nine, he may come back in time!

Smack him with the forty and he might come back to the party!

Bust a cap from the 357 or 44 mag, that will cause his a$$ to drag!

Even the 45 might not leave them alive!

 

Score good hit on him with the "10" and he won't be back again! :nt:

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Hit'em with the nine, he may come back in time!

Smack him with the forty and he might come back to the party!

Bust a cap from the 357 or 44 mag, that will cause his a$$ to drag!

Even the 45 might not leave them alive!

 

Score good hit on him with the "10" and he won't be back again! :nt:

 

Shadow, you got that right! :thumb:

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This 10mm caliber business about a STOPPER is ok perhaps for the sake of stopping a mugger but for those who think the 10mm is something of super natural Boom Boom flop on animals just don't have the true facts.

 

I have put down a couple of goats, around 90 pounds with a .40 caliber Smith & Wesson and was not impressed one iota. It took a 3rd shot to the brain to knock it off it's feet at less than 10ft. A 155 Hornady XTP bullet and a Cor-Bon bullet. The 3rd shot was a Blazer solid in 165 weight.

1st hit was square in the front shoulder, 2nd hit behind the shoulder, 3rd to the head.

 

I did the same thing with a .45acp, 1st to the shoulder at 10 ft, then behind the shoulder. Goat was knocked down on the second shot but still breathing. 3rd shot to the head to put it away. Goat was around 90 lbs. also.

 

OK, now come the 10mm with 1st shot into the shoulder, it broked the shoulder but goat stayed on it's feet. I would have thought it would have broken both shoulders and put the animal down to the ground quickly but it did not happen. 1st shot was Wincherster Sabers in 175 bullet weight. Next shot was behind the shoulder 3 inches! The goat trotted forward 15 feet and stopped, then it turned, I ten put another round into it's head and it went down quickly. All I can say is that I was surprized by the .45acp or 10mm NOT putting those goats down on the first shot!

 

In essence I would NOT want to face a charging grizzly bear or blackbear with any of my 10mm Glocks! We will continue this bullet experiment this coming summer when it is time to Bar B Q once again. Then it will be the .41 magnum, .44 magnum and .454 Cassul. Animals are tuffer than humans, this is my observation of the tests we ran.

 

 

 

 

Hit'em with the nine, he may come back in time!

Smack him with the forty and he might come back to the party!

Bust a cap from the 357 or 44 mag, that will cause his a$$ to drag!

Even the 45 might not leave them alive!

 

Score good hit on him with the "10" and he won't be back again! :nt:

Edited by Tracer

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Why are you torturing goats?

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Animals are tuffer than humans, this is my observation of the tests we ran.

 

Animals are much tougher than humans. Shooting goats won't tell what the same rounds will do to humans.

 

You have to shoot humans to find that out.

 

 

Why are you torturing goats?
:laugh:

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I'm sorry, but I believe that the 10mm can, and will, accomplish the task when the appropriate load is properly placed.

 

That is the imperative.

 

Scott

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