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flyandscuba

Kahr P45 conversion to 10mm Auto...

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After successfully converting my SigArms Mauser M2 and current production AMT BackUp pistols to 10mm Auto, I started looking a little closer at my Kahr P45. At the minimum, a barrel change with one chambered in 10mm Auto with the external dimensions of the existing .45 ACP barrel would be required.

 

The existing P45 magazine will hold, retain, and feed 10mm cartridges in my personal P45.

 

The breechface and extractor for the .45 ACP is a questionable area. Although I can hand cycle 10mm Auto snap caps through my P45, I do see where at least a more narrow breechface to .40 S&W/10mm dimensions would be beneficial. A redesigned extractor may add to reliability as well. I would expect a stronger recoil spring may be desired -- but not necessarily required.

 

So, I defintely think that a Kahr P45-sized pistol chambered in 10mm is not only a possibility -- but a somewhat easy re-tool for a manufacturer like Kahr to undertake. Having met and talked with Justin Moon (Kahr's owner) at sevral SHOT Shows, I've experienced that he is very approachable and like to talk guns with his customers. So, I decided to send an email to Kahr to pose the idea. Not having Mr. Moon's email address, I sent the message quoted below to the sales executive for my geographic area in hopes that it will be passed up the chain of leadership within the company.

 

I indicated in the message that I think the group of 10mm owners and fans at the GlockTalk 10-ring (simply because of the GlockTalk memberhsip size) would have a positive response to the proposal. If you agree -- please make your desires and opinions clear in responses to this post. Hopefully, Mr. Moore and Mr. Moon will be by soon to see what you have to say. Feel free to start a write-in campaign to the company as well.

 

Thanks!

flyandscuba

 

Mr. Moore,

 

I've got a proof or concept idea that I request you to please pass along to Justin Moon. I have been involved with firearms for decades and I am an avid hunter, shooter, and owner of Kahr firearms.

 

During the past year, I have embarked in some firearms projects where I have successfully converted stock handguns originally designed in .45 ACP to 10mm Auto. The first project was the conversion of a long discontinued offering by SigArms under the Mauser name called the M2. It was a relatively simple conversion since I was fortunate that the .40 S&W offering of the M2 was basically the same pistol as the .45 ACP offering in all dimensions but the breechface and barrel bore. The .40 S&W magazine incorporated a spacer in essentially the original .45 ACP magazine. Remove the spacer from the magazine and ream the chamber of the .40 S&W barrel to 10mm Auto specifications and the conversion was complete -- resulting in a fully functional compact 10mm pistol which handles the recoil of the 10mm Auto cartridge well.

 

Next, I took a new production (High Standard) AMT BackUp chambered in .40 S&W that is basically identical to the original .45 ACP design -- again, except for a spacer in the magazine and a barrel with a .40 caliber bore. I removed the magazine spacer and had the chamber reamed for 10mm Auto, successfully producing what I believe to be the first true pocket pistol chambered in 10mm Auto. Again, the converted firearm is completely functional -- even with full-power ammunition offered by companies such as Double Tap and Buffalo Bore.

 

I am a fan of the 10mm Auto cartridge because I believe that it is one of the most versatile chamberings for handguns today. It can be down-loaded appropriately for self defense purposes without risk of over penetration -- or made with full power ballistics for hunting use or needs where barrier penetration are important.

 

Where am I going with this you might ask? One of my favorite Kahr pistols in my collection is the P45 with the blackened slide. It has been a frequent CCW choice for me, riding in a wonderful IWB holster handcrafted by Matt DelFatti. After my two previous successful conversion projects, I started looking a little closer at my P45. Interestingly, the P45 magazine -- with no modification -- will hold 7 rounds of 10mm Auto ammunition. No adjustments were required to the feed lips to hold and retain the cartridges. The overall length of the 10mm Auto cartridge is almost identical to the .45 ACP cartridge -- thus why the previous conversions were even possible in the earlier projects.

 

So, in order to make a 10mm Auto version of the P45 (call it the P10?) -- all that would be needed to make a functioning conversion would be to produce a barrel with a .40 caliber bore and chambered to 10mm specifications with the external dimensions of the existing P45 .45ACP barrel. In order to ensure complete reliability, altering the slide design to incorporate a .40 S&W/10mm Auto breechface and possibly producing a different extractor (the existing extractor will extract 10mm Auto snap caps when hand cycled in my P45) would be beneficial, as well as possibly a stronger recoil spring. Each of those design changes -- new barrel, narrow cut breechface, altered extractor, and stronger spring -- are relatively simple changes for a manufacturer such as Kahr, and your parts suppliers.

 

Although the 10mm Auto cartridge does not have the massive following of law enforcement today thanks to the FBI and resulting development of the .40 S&W cartridge -- it does have a significant base of shooters and firearm owners like myself who enjoy the versatility of the cartridge for sporting and self defense purposes. Otherwise, companies like Colt, Glock, Kimber, EAA, and S&W would not be currently producing firearms to use the 10mm Auto cartridge. Furthermore, I doubt that Glock would have recently released the "SF", or short frame versions of the G20 and G29 if they were not selling in significant quantity. Almost every 10mm Auto shooter that I know personally has added one of the new "SF" Glocks to their collection since they have been available within the past two years. Likewise, I doubt that S&W would have decided to include a 10mm Auto version of their recent Scandium frame "Night Guard" revolvers if the market research did not indicate brisk sales from the 10mm Auto fans.

 

So, I ask that you run the idea by Mr. Moon. Consider offering a P45-sized pistol chambered in 10mm Auto. They will surely sell -- I know that I would buy one tomorrow if it was available, as that platform is the most comfortable self defense handgun I own for IWB carry as a concealed weapon. I would even be happy to beta-test the proof of concept in my own P45 if you or your parts supplier would produce a barrel for me to purchase with the external dimensions of the existing P45 barrel -- but with the .40 caliber bore and a chamber reamed to 10mm Auto specifications. I would provide complete testing results to include function and ballistic performance, write articles for publication -- whatever you would desire in terms of documentation of the proof of concept.

 

If there is any uncertainty that a 10mm Auto offering by Kahr would sell -- and become popular -- simply watch as I pose the question to the 10-Ring section of GlockTalk and see the response from the 10mm Auto shooters and fans. I expect the response will be siginificant.

 

I appreciate your time to read my request -- and I thank you and Mr. Moon for a company that produces quality and very practical handguns suitable for concealed carry permit/license-holding gun owners in America.

 

Respectfully,

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