Jump to content
joey1980

And here it is.

Recommended Posts

So if any of you have helped me along with achieving good result for my AR-15 here is the work so far. I reloaded 25 rounds of H335, Winchester case, 55g Varmint Nightmare and CCI 400 Primers. The photos tell the grain off to the side. My first 5 shots were not showing up on paper as I had hoped. Therefore I had to do it a different way. So I only have 20 shots in these photos. I must say that I am pleased with the results.

FxCam_1285893705756.jpg

 

FxCam_1285893693445.jpg

 

FxCam_1285893726301.jpg

 

FxCam_1285893735236.jpg

 

FxCam_1285893745342.jpg

 

The only question that I have left is what now? So the 24.0g is the best load out of what I shot. Do I pick the next best group and load at .1g (5 ea.) in between them? Or should I just load .1g around the 24.0g? example (5) ea. 23.7 (5) ea. 23.8 and so on until (5) ea 24.3g .?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

shoot some more 24s and see what you get. if results are same, why would you mess with other loads?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
shoot some more 24s and see what you get. if results are same, why would you mess with other loads?

Well ideally I would like a 5 shot group to touch. Next time I do need to keep in my notes if I thought a shot went off pre mature due to human error. I would like to know if that one stray round was a shot that I was thinking, "dang that one crept up on me." Anyway. I was thinking of doing the second option that I posted in original post. I will be shooting another 5 of the 24.0g doing it that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Load them up again and see what you get and if the two separate sets have a trend/match up. 5 shots isn't a real good indicator sometimes. If 24g hits good again on a separate day then you're pretty good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Load them up again and see what you get and if the two separate sets have a trend/match up. 5 shots isn't a real good indicator sometimes. If 24g hits good again on a separate day then you're pretty good.

 

I agree with the guys, shoot another batch at 24. I would recommend shooting two groups at each powder charge. This will help you eliminate missing a very good load level because of human error on that pass.

 

I look at the trends of two groups and if I get some that show promise I'll go back with another ten rounds the next trip out. One thing that MIGHT help your groups with your AR is to load SIX rounds in the magazine and shoot the first one off the target to "settle" in the bolt. The first shot out of the group syndrome is very common and at times this is the only way to beat it.

 

What range, optic, weather conditions were in play for these groups? All can factor in. All shots touching is a great goal but realistically any consistent grouping under an MOA at 100 will be a good testimony to your equipment and your shooting ability assuming you aren't running a match grade barrel, big optics and a match trigger.

 

One thing to be aware of that not all bullets will give you super groups. The Varmint Grenades are not match bullets and while they will group pretty well many times they will not shine like other projectiles on the market. You may have to step up to a heavier bullet for best groups or even go to another 55 grainer like the VMAX depending on your barrel twist.

 

Greg

Edited by GLShooter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing that MIGHT help your groups with your AR is to load SIX rounds in the magazine and shoot the first one off the target to "settle" in the bolt. The first shot out of the group syndrome is very common and at times this is the only way to beat it.

The delema in that is I loaded a magazine as follow

 

1. 23.0g

1. 23.5g

1. 24.0g

1. 24.5g

1. 25.0g

 

Every shot that I took was there for on a different target. I shot from a lead sled to help with the shot shooting dead on. Obviously I shot all of the same grain at the same target. I did it like this to eliminate copper foulling effecting any certain group. It was a pain to adjust the sled but not that big of a deal to me for achieving a great round. (Thanks Karl for lending me the sled.) I repeated the magazine like this four times allowing for cooling in between each magazine load and shot.

 

What range, optic, weather conditions were in play for these groups? All can factor in. All shots touching is a great goal but realistically any consistent grouping under an MOA at 100 will be a good testimony to your equipment and your shooting ability assuming you aren't running a match grade barrel, big optics and a match trigger.

 

I am shooting a stock AR-15 by Bushmaster. Has the 20" barel 1:9 twist and the stock 2 stage trigger. I used a Simmons 3-9x32 .22 mag. scope. As I said I did use the Lead Sled to try and make everyshot as accurate as I could. Now that being said I also know that the Lead Slead did help with my shooting ability but not the efficiency nor the grain in the ammo.

 

I do believe that I will be reloading some more of the 24.0g to make sure that they are as accurate as it seems. I am even now contemplating redoing what I did today just to make sure. Like a wise man once said " I would recommend shooting two groups at each powder charge. This will help you eliminate missing a very good load level because of human error on that pass."

 

Thank you by the way to everyone who has helped me in learning this. And thanks to everyone for the input. Damn it almost feels like I won an award.

Edited by joey1980

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The delema in that is I loaded a magazine as follow

 

1. 23.0g

1. 23.5g

1. 24.0g

1. 24.5g

1. 25.0g

 

Every shot that I took was there for on a different target. I shot from a lead sled to help with the shot shooting dead on. Obviously I shot all of the same grain at the same target. I did it like this to eliminate copper foulling effecting any certain group. It was a pain to adjust the sled but not that big of a deal to me for achieving a great round. (Thanks Karl for lending me the sled.) I repeated the magazine like this four times allowing for cooling in between each magazine load and shot.

 

The process is logical for what you want to do but by doing shot to shot adjustment from group to group you induce movement and inaccuracy due to repeatability inconsistency. Shooting one load without adjusting would have cut those groups down a great deal IMHO.

 

If you run a low powered scope, like the 9X, the possibility for error in aiming goes up drastically. It's like shooting rapid fire pistol. When you get into a rhythm of five shots the mind starts running on automatic and things click. 5 shots in 10 seconds can be very accurate. However, if you throw the pistol up their five times and take a shot quickly the group size will be bigger because you are fighting forces that are not consistent and you are hurrying up. The adjustments should be kept to a minimum when you shoot groups.

 

The Consistent Crimp Test is hard because you are shooting a shot, taking a tempo, documenting and them setting up for the next shot. Lots of movement. A five shot string at the bench uninterrupted will tend to be smaller in most cases.

 

One thing that is interesting in the trending department on your targets is that shot #1 tends to be low left of the main grouping of all shots in four of the five groups. Subtle consistency will give you a lot of information as you develop the analytical skills that you already are showing. It will be educational as you refine your technique at the shooting bench and at the reloading bench also.

 

Greg

Edited by GLShooter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The process is logical for what you want to do but by doing shot to shot adjustment from group to group you induce movement and inaccuracy due to repeatability inconsistency. Shooting one load without adjusting would have cut those groups down a great deal IMHO.

 

If you run a low powered scope, like the 9X, the possibility for error in aiming goes up drastically. It's like shooting rapid fire pistol. When you get into a rhythm of five shots the mind starts running on automatic and things click. 5 shots in 10 seconds can be very accurate. However, if you throw the pistol up their five times and take a shot quickly the group size will be bigger because you are fighting forces that are not consistent and you are hurrying up. The adjustments should be kept to a minimum when you shoot groups.

 

The Consistent Crimp Test is hard because you are shooting a shot, taking a tempo, documenting and them setting up for the next shot. Lots of movement. A five shot string at the bench uninterrupted will tend to be smaller in most cases.

 

One thing that is interesting in the trending department on your targets is that shot #1 tends to be low left of the main grouping of all shots in four of the five groups. Subtle consistency will give you a lot of information as you develop the analytical skills that you already are showing. It will be educational as you refine your technique at the shooting bench and at the reloading bench also.

 

Greg

Ok so then maybe is what I will do is to go back and do all the same loads again but shoot all 5 at the same target and move to the next. I understand being inconsistant when I set up for another shot. But would the lead sled not help with accuracy when I do set up for another shot? As for most of the first shots being low and to the left not sure what that really matters? The scope I was using was sighted in by using Remmington .223. The more I shot the more comfortable I was with the shooting. And yes every seat was taken accept for mine at a 10 seat range. Deer hunters using .338 mags to shoot Whitetail wierdo's. I do not know for sure but I get the feeling maybe the Remmington loads were more than 25 grains? I assumed that is why most of the shots were low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Greg on moving the gun from target to target even though it was in a lead sled. I think the lead sled is probably good to sight stuff in that is really big or for someone that might flinch. Personally I would rather shoot from sand bags because that is what I would be shooting from if I were pdog hunting. On the big stuff if I feel the kick or see some muzzle flash I know I didn't flinch, but if it didn't give me a good kick then I can usually tell I flinched on that. That's my experience from shooting bigger stuff only wearing a t-shirt. I've always wondered if a gun locked into a lead sled with no real ability to kick back would shoot different from when it is on your should and has a little more give. I say shoot another group or two of each and see what it tells ya. No big deal in shooting more because shooting is what we like and fun! Maybe load three more groups, shoot one from the lead sled and two from sandbags and see if they're consistent with each other or have trends since you will have 2 loadings from each.

 

Maybe even get a target like you have with the crosses to really lock your cross hairs into, but a smaller bullseye. Seems like the smaller I aim for the better I do. An example kind of related is that if I shoot my bow at a quarter sized circle vs a 3" circle my quarter sized target groupings are always closer. On my scopes with a circle BDC reticle I get round targets that match my BDC circle at that range so I can really lock my circle onto it. If I shoot my circle BDC reticles at cross targets my groups aren't as good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you said it, the more you shoot the more comfortable you got. Another idea is to get some plinkers and shoot 20 or so of them so you get warmed up before you go to your precision reloads and you are comfortable that day. It usually takes me a few rounds to get warmed up and shooting good. I usually have my scopes dialed in for 1" high at 100 and then when testing I never touch it and let them hit where they hit, then when I have a load down I will adjust my scope to hit where I want it to. It can be frustrating at a public range when other guys have their canons out. The worst is when someone has a brake on their gun. It makes it so damn loud and you can literally feel the recoil sitting next to them. Maybe try to go super early in the morning or shoot at a farm. I'm glad I don't have to visit public ranges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I usually have my scopes dialed in for 1" high at 100 and then when testing I never touch it and let them hit where they hit, then when I have a load down I will adjust my scope to hit where I want it to. It can be frustrating at a public range when other guys have their canons out. The worst is when someone has a brake on their gun. It makes it so damn loud and you can literally feel the recoil sitting next to them. Maybe try to go super early in the morning or shoot at a farm. I'm glad I don't have to visit public ranges.

 

 

Good stuff cre10 on your observations. Sighting in on a smaller area seems to improve most shooters performance. I have been using the freebies from MY TARGETS for the Consistent Crimp The cross hairs type with the box really lets you dial in.

 

CCCRIMP5FT-LBS8-10.jpg

 

 

I usually will use a diamond type like this:

 

 

CCSIGHTINNOCRIMP8-15-10.jpg

 

 

Since I get several aiming points of the circle, the big diamond or the points of the diamond. I don't care where they land when I am working up loads and adjust for impact after evaluating the groups.

 

Joey, those big boomers going off rattle everybody. It is truly hard to concentrate on itty bitty groups when that much distraction is going on. Deer/elk season sight in times are a bear here in AZ. I have only gone to the public range once during that time and never again!! I have access to a covered solid bench at a 100 yard range where I am the only shooter and that is where I spend some of every weekend when I can. Tomorrow t will be six hours finishing up the 243 Consistent Crimp test and it looks good on that!!

 

While you would think moving the sled from point to point would be fine it just induces a factor that is not going to improve your results. I use sand bags and a front pedestal or rear bags and bipod to test my rifles. I do OK with some of them but when it comes to really laying them down you must do it all the same.

 

A shot that is low in a group will usually be found to be shooting SLOWER than the other bullets as it takes longer to get down range and gravity has more time to work. The powder charge does not really matter as 25 grains of one does not equal 25 grains of another. Pressure production, burn rates and a myriad of factors enter in to the equation not the charge weight in and of itself.

 

I like the idea of shooting some "sledded" groups and then some bagged ones. For one thing it will allow you to see how much the "human" factor figures in and will give you a good indication of the consistency of the load under two conditions. Good bench shooting is learned. It is never osmotically imprinted into ones trigger finger. I read a few books on BR type shooting before I started shooting for load development years ago and it really improved my results.

 

Joey, keep us posted as this is a great learning experience for all of us and you get the benefit of pulling the trigger!!

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've always wondered if a gun locked into a lead sled with no real ability to kick back would shoot different from when it is on your should and has a little more give.

I just did it in a lead sled because I tend to have shakey hands. Not sure if "locked" is literal or not but it was just resting in it.

 

 

I think you said it, the more you shoot the more comfortable you got. Another idea is to get some plinkers and shoot 20 or so of them so you get warmed up before you go to your precision reloads and you are comfortable that day. Maybe try to go super early in the morning or shoot at a farm. I'm glad I don't have to visit public ranges.

 

Yeah I actually sighted it in before I did my test fires. I shot about 16 I think. I do think I need to shoot from sand bags as well. I just figured that in order to get the round as accurate as I could. Shooting them from a lead sled to make sure it is not human error was the way to get the round I wanted. That way if I am shooting from bags or just a pod and I miss I know it was human error on my part. Now to start using the flash hole tool and the primer pocket uniforomer on the next batch.

 

Thanks guys. Hopefully I can reload some and go out on sunday after my arm gets torn off tomorrow in the duck hunt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those targets look like the ones I was given yesterday by the old man at the bountiful range. LOL small world.

 

Was that at 100 yds joe?

 

ALso, when i am doing 69 grain sierra, is there a powder load you recommend?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Those targets look like the ones I was given yesterday by the old man at the bountiful range. LOL small world.

 

Was that at 100 yds joe?

 

ALso, when i am doing 69 grain sierra, is there a powder load you recommend?

Does "close the damn door" sound familiar? I sent you that message if you have a question you can give me a call. I would say Varget is a good powder to load behind those. I found a reload for something similar I will look for it and send it your way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so I went out again today and not too good. Both of these groups were loaded with 24.0 g. They are all down to the left because I still have yet to adjust my scope. Here is the problem. I have the a2 carry handle so I bought the mount and put the scope on it and it works fine. Problem is when I was taking it off to put it in my case I noticed that the back ring was not fully tightened. I am unsure if that had something to do with the accuracy? The front one was tight. I am sure it may have had something to do with it and I will have to go back and redo what I did today just to be sure.

FxCam_1286309743919.jpg

FxCam_1286309729068.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...